Thanks! I want to avoid the extra time required for rendering as well as the potential loss of quality from recompression for those clips which have not changed.

My output files are often used to author AVCHD disks with trimmed clips identical to the capture format.

Thanks again,

Larry

I did some tests and was not able to find an AVC template that would match the Canon M2TS files close enough for the smart render to kick in.
If you just want to trim the clips, you will probably be better served with the software that comes bundled with the camera. Recompressing AVCHD is to be avoided at all costs, as far as I have understood.
Render to a compressed format only once - when you render top the final output media, be it YouTube Mp4, DVD or Bluray. As intermediate formats, use lossless AVI or image sequences. This is the advice I have gotten when reading me up on this topic.
I violate this myself sometimes though, I use the MXF format built into Vegas.
Ingvar

I have gotten the no-recompress message with my HF200 footage by choosing the Sony AVC template and setting bitrate to the highest setting: 20Mbps I believe. Keep experimenting and you should be able to get it to work at least intermittently.

On the subject, I think Vegas desperately needs a "Passthrough" check box in the rendering options.

Unless they corrected it in 9.0c, which I seriously doubt, smart-render for AVCHD in Vegas 9 is seriously buggy. Sometimes it will work up to a certain point in the timeline, and then it will start recompressing, even if it's a cuts only timeline. I wouldn't use it for smart-render, unfortunately the Pixela software that comes with Canons is unbearable to use, but it does smart-render perfectly if you suffer through the method of "editing" that it provides.

Pixela is truly awful. I was considering an upgrade from Vegas 8 if smart rendering was added in Vegas 9. Sorry to hear that it works poorly.

Several low coat NLEs handle AVCHD without re-rendering but Vegas makes no claim to provide it. It appears to be a partially implemented "feature" without any formal Sony support.

Thanks to all for info.

Larry

[i]>Sometimes it will work up to a certain point in the timeline[i]
What template makes smart rendering AVCHD work at all?
What source did you use and what template?
In my vegas 9c the highest supported bit rate seems to me 16 Mbps

Ingvar

>Sometimes it will work up to a certain point in the timeline

Yes, that's correct, you can't go higher than 16 Mbps with the Sony AVC encoder. I think there's a preset made for it, but I don't remember, I installed the Vegas 9 trial when it came out and it was total junk, so I uninstalled it and kept working with 8.0c

The avchd smart render DOES work, but it is still a bit flawed.

I can smart render an edited time line and the smart render kicks out at the right time (just before a transition/effect). However it takes about 150 to 200 frames to kick back in again after the effect.

To the best of my knowledge though, this is still better than most of the other nle's out there. Premiere doesn't smart render at all... FCP...MC...etal won't even work with native avchd. Ulead products (built for the consumer) have their fair share of smart render issues...etc... etc.

Vegas However (whether smart rendering or not) does have a ceiling of 16 for a bit rate. Not sure why that is

"I installed the Vegas 9 trial when it came out and it was total junk, so I uninstalled it and kept working with 8.0c"

Really?
I'm having relatively few issues with 9. There are a few bugs, most of which are already noted on the board. Operator error maybe?

I'm having relatively few issues with 9. There are a few bugs, most of which are already noted on the board. Operator error maybe?

Not at all. Programmer error. As in, in Vegas 8.0c you press play in an AVCHD timeline and it starts playing at full speed instantly, while in 9 it stutters for five seconds until it goes up to full speed. Same quad core 2.66 Ghz / 8 GB of RAM computer.

Mmmm.

I guess the "programmer" was person-specific when they programmed vegas then? 9b did that to me, but not 9c.

Anyway.. I thought you were off to Premiere Pro? Isn't that the common threat you use? Good luck with that by the way. The renders are long, the final output quality bad, the bugs a great many In fact I just heard (and can confirm) that Adobe was voted to be one of the most buggy

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10417785-245.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.1

But hey, what do I know??? You seem to be one that is quite on-top of it all.

I guess the "programmer" was person-specific when they programmed vegas then? 9b did that to me, but not 9c.

So you're saying that 9.0c 64 bit doesn't have this bug anymore? That if you are working on an AVCHD timeline and you press play, it starts playing at full speed right away?

Anyway.. I thought you were off to Premiere Pro? Isn't that the common threat you use? Good luck with that by the way. The renders are long, the final output quality bad, the bugs a great many In fact I just heard (and can confirm) that Adobe was voted to be one of the most buggy

I never said that I was going to abandon Vegas for Premiere. I said that I was going to work with a serious NLE when the toy NLE from SCS can't be used because they're gone for the weekend. While I have a poor opinion of SCS as a company, Vegas is still my NLE of choice when it comes to workflow and features, which is why their negligence and lack of quality control on this software pisses me off so much.

"So you're saying that 9.0c 64 bit doesn't have this bug anymore? That if you are working on an AVCHD timeline and you press play, it starts playing at full speed right away?"

Didn't I just say that????

" While I have a poor opinion of SCS as a company,"

Yes... I'm quite well aware by now, as I'm sure are other poor soles having to read your rather happy and uplifting words. I should probably forewarn my Adobe friends that you're on the way over there, because if you're this....ummm... 'happy' over a few issues (that you yourself have most likely caused), I can't wait to see how you react once you TRULY understand PP!

Anyway... quite sorry... I've wasted enough time with this.... good luck in your endeavors

...over a few issues (that you yourself have most likely caused),

Oh, sure, I caused the SCS staff to leave for the weekend without leaving not even one staff person on call in case there are customers whose registration is bounced and cannot use the software. Of course it's my fault, didn't I tell you that I set policy at SCS headquarters? Also, it's my fault that half the times you open a 64 bit version of Vegas it will tell you that the source files cannot be found when they are still at the same place, and you have to close Vegas and reopen it so the source files load properly. Yes, that, and all the nasty bugs Vegas has, it's all my fault, because hey, I'm eeeeevil and I like to cause trouble to other people.

> Yes, that, and all the nasty bugs Vegas has, it's all my fault, because hey, I'm eeeeevil..
A "bug" is first and foremost a behavior / issue a piece of software posesses, provided the following criteria are satisfied:
a) Happens to more than one user
b) Is reproducible
I am starting to wonder why you do not uninstall everything that SCS has created, and then move on. I get the impression that, according to you, the world is ful of software that functions and works much better than - using your own words - the "toy software" from SCS.
So - why not uninstall all SCS software, then use software that in your opinion is not a toy, and just stop posting here?
Ingvar

Because I paid for the software, and that gives me the right to use it and to post here as much as I want when things don't work. I don't uninstall Vegas because apart from its ridiculous bugs and the ineptitude of SCS in handling many things, I love most of the interface, and I couldn't care less whether you like it or not, I'm going to keep using it for as long as I want, and I will keep posting here for as long as I want.

Chill Chill! -- I'm using AVCHD from Panasonic HMC-150, Sony VV trial 9.0c on a similar machine (6 GBs RAM, newer quad core, W7 64 bit) and I do not notice any lag before it starts playing in native AVCHD mode...So maybe that 'bug' was fixed.

Just to be clear, having worked in a software factory, betas, and the first version of new versions (major changes to the numbering scheme, 8 to 9 etc), usually mean that they are going to leave some bugs that aren't 'critical' unfixed, and mop up after the launch. This usually is due to marketing costs considerations than actual developer skill, since they have to preplan and prepay for launch costs. Slipping dates is unacceptable usually. All software has bugs. All of it. It's only a question of whether you find them or they do, how large a population of the user base might find them, and whether they fix them. It doesn't appear to me, that they still have that bug. But I"m not pushing the envelope yet on this software. So I can be wrong.

it was said:

"I'm having relatively few issues with 9. There are a few bugs, most of which are already noted on the board. Operator error maybe?

Not at all. Programmer error. As in, in Vegas 8.0c you press play in an AVCHD timeline and it starts playing at full speed instantly, while in 9 it stutters for five seconds until it goes up to full speed. Same quad core 2.66 Ghz / 8 GB of RAM computer."

> I will keep posting here for as long as I want
As long as you AND Sony creative wants, that is.
You have yourself named SCS software "toy software". I guess you want to play with toys then.
Ingvar

"Chill Chill! -- I'm using AVCHD from Panasonic HMC-150, Sony VV trial 9.0c on a similar machine (6 GBs RAM, newer quad core, W7 64 bit) and I do not notice any lag before it starts playing in native AVCHD mode...So maybe that 'bug' was fixed."

Shhhh! Don't tell him anymore... maybe he'll head off to PP :)

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the Vegas 9 upgrade this mornig.

I had delayed buying the upgrade since the trial version, as of when I downloaded it, could not "smart render" and seemed to offer no benefit compared to Vegas 8. I was among the first to use Vegas 9 trial when it was announced so my trial expired long before the several updates to the current version 9.0c occurred.

Given the possibility that smart render has now been fixed, and the very tempting new pricing offered by Sony in their "Deal of the Decade" upgrade offer last night, I bit the bullet and purchased it.

Just as you warned me above, the smart rendering is indeed very, very messed up.

I took a single clip directly from the HF100 and put it on the timeline. I immediately rendered it to the Sony AVC 16 Mb/sec template format. It smart-rendered until it hit the 52% point at a very fast speed. When it hit 52%, it slowed down to a snail's pace, began to show a preview screen, and rendered the rest at a ridiculously slow pace.

I can't think of one good reason for why it would treat the first half as smart render and then switch. I can think of one bad reason......software bug(s) !!

I think all of us who buy these products have the right to complain when things don't work right, and Sony has the obligation to fix them. In this particular case, the "feature" is NOT advertised as such, so I will not attempt to seek Sony help, nor will I complain further. I will state, however, that Power Director 8 from Cyberlink, Video Studio X2 Pro from Corel, Total Media Extreme from Arcsoft, and Nero Vision all do this smart-render correctly for the very same clip. One would imagine that if these 4 programs (all under $100) handle this so well that MAYBE Sony should get it to work right also.............

Thanks for the assistance!

Larry

Try smart rendering as a M2TS. I seem to have better luck with this as opposed to AVC.

Just use the standard M2TS template and UNCHECK "include audio". Then render out your separate AC3 file afterward as normal.

DVDa BTW does not re-compress this so long as you use the PRO encoder.

Larry,
with all due respect:
> Just as you warned me above, the smart rendering is indeed very, very messed up.
I would claim that your use of smart rendering is rather uncommon, or indeed VERY uncommon.
I use smart rendering for the only useful purpose I can find rendering to a compressed format, and that is rendering to the final format I will publish my video to.
In my case, this is the DVD Architect template for wide-screen DVD.
Smart rendering in my case works just like magic. All the time.
I would assume that Sony Creative made Vegas works fine for the most common purposes, and did their beta tests accordingly.
Your purpose is rather alien to me, but hey - that is me, I admit that.
Ingvar