Double frames when decoding UHD HEVC 59.940 fps

Vincent-Mesman wrote on 3/10/2019, 12:35 PM

I'm testing the Trial version of Vegas Pro 16 with mp4 files from my Samsung Note9. They are UHD (3840x2160) with a frame rate of 59,940 fps. Project settings are identical to the source file.

At irregular moments there are bursts of repeated frames.

When previewing step by step (using the Arrow-Right key) and also in the output file (AVI, Sony YUV compressed - rendered without GPU acceleration).

When testing with Vegas Pro 14, the result is identical to the result of v16. And the repeated frames are at exactly the same frames.

When testing with another brand of NLE (Resolve Studio 15.2.4) all seems fine with the source mp4 file.

To me this seems to indicate that there must be something wrong with the HEVC decoding in Vegas Pro (v14 and v16).

I was hoping to update my Vegas Pro 14 license because Vegas still supports the AVI codecs very well, but this is a show stopper for me.

Also I don't understand exactly why Resolve Studio supports my nvidia GTX690 but Vegas only utilizes the high-end GPU's of 2019. Are there plans to expand GPU support to older GPU's? At least for the Edit version (I never use the external plugins).

Specs: Windows10 64bit, i7-3770K@3,50 GHz, 32,0 GB RAM, GTX690 with driver v418,81, 1536 CUDA cores, and 2 GB GDDR5.

Comments

Eagle Six wrote on 3/10/2019, 1:15 PM

They are UHD (3840x2160) with a frame rate of 59,940 fps.

@Vincent-Mesman I see your statement above, just double checking to confirm that your source media is constant frame rate and not variable frame rate (use Mediainfo in text mode), id that correct?

Eagle Six wrote on 3/10/2019, 1:17 PM

Tried to edit my comment above but that option is not working, I wanted to add I'm not that familiar with your phone or the UHD HEVC, that is why I ask.

Kinvermark wrote on 3/10/2019, 1:49 PM

When testing with another brand of NLE (Resolve Studio 15.2.4) all seems fine with the source mp4 file.

To me this seems to indicate that there must be something wrong with the HEVC decoding in Vegas Pro (v14 and v16).

Not necessarily. There are so many different flavours of h.264/265 (HEVC) that it is hit and miss with all NLE's, even Resolve. Solution is to transcode to supported media in whatever NLE you use. Phones & tablets are often at fault. Gopro too. Cameras are almost always OK.

I was hoping to update my Vegas Pro 14 license because Vegas still supports the AVI codecs very well, but this is a show stopper for me.

Also I don't understand exactly why Resolve Studio supports my nvidia GTX690 but Vegas only utilizes the high-end GPU's of 2019. Are there plans to expand GPU support to older GPU's? At least for the Edit version (I never use the external plugins).

Vegas supports plenty of "old" GPU's. Almost nobody has a high end 2019 one. What would we have been doing up until now? :) See my specs (signature) if you don't believe me.

What it doesn't really support is CUDA - and that definitely is not going to happen now.

BruceUSA wrote on 3/10/2019, 4:35 PM

Without seeing your project properties settings . Did you disable smart resample to none?. Need to do that. I have Samsung S9 phone I have no issue with double frames in 4k 60P hevc.

j-v wrote on 3/10/2019, 4:49 PM

Are you able to provide us with a short testfile equal to your sourcefiles, so we can all try on our VPro 16. You have to deliver it on a kind of cloudservice like dropbox to ensure it not being converted. Thanks in advance.

Vincent-Mesman wrote on 3/11/2019, 1:56 PM

Here is a very short raw UHD 59,940 fps clip recorded with the Samsung Note 9: https://we.tl/t-iJYRO6PWfT (this link is valid for 1 week).

I disabled Smart Resampling and the project (frame size and frame-rate) settings were identical to the Samsung Note 9 UHD 59,940 fps clip.

This page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding tells me that HEVC has 2 tiers (main and high) and 13 levels. I'm not a HEVC expert, and I expect my NLE to take care of the decoding details, but I do know that this file is not just theoretically.

The Note 9 does not support 25 fps or 50 fps. I use UHD 59,940 fps macro recordings from my Note 9, mounted on a Moza Mini-MI gimbal, for animation backplates. In order to match-move these recordings in SynthEyes I need to export them first. I was hoping to combine the transcoding, storyboarding (interesting new feature in Vegas Pro 16), color correction and editing in one single application.

There is no way I could tell if it's VFR. When decoding to EXR files in Resolve Studio the frames are perfectly aligned in time, with a smooth motion as a result. No missing frames. No repeated frames.

From various sources I've got the impression that nvidia is pushing CUDA and neglecting the rivalling OpenCL and it seems that OpenCL actually was supported by older GTX690 drivers. But the support seems to be gone for some reason that only nvidia can explain. The result is not good. Vegas Pro 16 has become painfully slow without GPU acceleration. For my short UHD clips that is not the biggest problem.

Marco. wrote on 3/11/2019, 2:13 PM

This Note 9 clip is variable frame rate variing from 59.88 to 60.12 fps.

Eagle Six wrote on 3/11/2019, 2:17 PM

@Vincent-Mesman as @Marco. states above your source is variable frame rate. I get the same results as you do both in Vegas Pro and Resolve 15. I run your source through Avidemux to change it to constant frame rate and it plays perfect frame-to-frame in Vegas Pro. So, I would either transcode/convert your source media files using something like Avidemux or just process it in DaVinci Resolve.

Former user wrote on 3/11/2019, 2:22 PM

I tested your file here and confirmed this problem in Vegas 14, 15 and 16. I also tested on DaVince Resolve 15 and Premiere CC and they are ok.

j-v wrote on 3/11/2019, 2:48 PM

I downloaded your file and played it full screen in VPro 16 and I also saw irregular doubled frames while looking frame for frame, I think the variable framerate between 59,880 and 60,120 fps caused it.
Vegas, like most NLE's, does not like variable bitrates.
I converted the file with Handbrake to HEVC 60fps and that outcom plays fine in my Vegas and I could not see on full screen any loss in quality except the double frames are now gone.

Here you see the MediaInfo of the original and converted file:

Vincent-Mesman wrote on 3/12/2019, 2:20 PM

Ok, thanks everyone for helping out.

I've been trying to get more info about VFR because I'm curious if it's a variation in sensor capture moment or delay in processing. I've never looked at VFR as a system limitation. I always thought that it was a feature. Now I understand it's a feature of the NLE to be able to repair a video stream.

I the problem is capture moment, I suspect that Resolve uses Optical Flow technology to reconstruct motion in order to prevent frame blending because the final result looks smooth.

To check if it's just a processing delay, I tried to use a project speed of 119,88 fps (VP accepts 120 fps max) to force oversampling but this had no influence. This would be easier to repair.