Dream Vegas machine

SimonW wrote on 2/27/2006, 3:24 PM
Hi all,

I'm currently putting together a spec for the ultimate Vegas/Combustion computer. I'm setting up a new studio and want something that will last me a while! Any suggestions/additions to the following would be welcome;

1. Mobo with two Xeon CPU's 3.6ghz each.
2. 100gb SATA2 boot drive.
3. 1tb RAID 0 video storage.
4. 1tb RAID 0 render storage.
5. Black Magic Decklink HD PCI-E.
6. 660w PSU.
7. Dell 30" TFT editing monitor http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=331613

Now, I'm not sure which soundcard to go for. Also not sure about graphics cards. While Vegas doesn't use GPU procesing, other applications often do (plus I don't know what Vegas 7 has in store). That one Dell monitor is the equivilent res of two normal TFT's. I don't like having a split down the middle of my work area where two monitors join, so it was cool to find this one even if the price is... steep! They do have a 1000:1 rated 24" one too. But the res isn't quite enough to be the same as working with two monitors normally.

Lastly I'm not sure which colour correction monitor to go for. Sony have discontinued their line of CRT's now. I would like something that takes high def for future proofing. But there doesn't seem to be a whole lot around apart from LCD TFT's which are not really any good for this purpose unless I spend 11k on one (yes, believe it or not there is a limit!)

So, am I way off line here? Will Vegas take advantage of twin Xeon processors for example? What about 64-bit processing?

Any help appreciated. I'm more of a video man than a computer techie :)

Comments

Yoyodyne wrote on 2/27/2006, 3:55 PM
I think the hot chip out these days is the AMD x2. You can even get a system that will run 2 of these puppies, do a search on x2 or amd and you should find tons of info.
farss wrote on 2/27/2006, 5:12 PM
If your heart is set on that machine, go with the Supermicro mobo, the Tynan boards never revue as well. Supermicro boards and cases are used in lots of render farms. They are expensive but if you're blowing that kind of cash.....
I think Supermicro have a board for dual AMD chips as well although as I've discovered raw CPU speed isn't everything, bus bandwidth and disk I/O speeds can play a part too.

Bob.
SimonW wrote on 2/28/2006, 1:14 AM
Hi guys,

My heart isn't totally set on this machine. I'm open to all suggestions. Is the X2 rated as a better chip than the Xeon? I noticed that the bus bandwidths on the AMD processors seems to be much quicker than Intel. Although I have always known Intel for raw number pushing ability.

I would be very interested if AMD might be a better route.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 2/28/2006, 10:54 AM
> I would be very interested if AMD might be a better route.

AMD is killing Intel in performance right now. I wouldn’t build an Intel box for video editing. I just build an AMD X2 PC and it renders MPEG2 faster than real-time. I would imagine that dual X2’s would be smokin’.

~jr
SimonW wrote on 2/28/2006, 10:59 AM
Which operating system are you using? I'm getting some confusing signals when I've been Googling peoples experiences with XP x64.
busterkeaton wrote on 2/28/2006, 11:24 AM
I don't think the Xeon are dual core.

The AMD X2's are and they smoke Intel's dual core desktop chips. I bet they do the same to the Xeons.

Check out the last sentence of this review.

Here is a review of dual-cpu workstations from Digital Video Editing. Now they are reviewing the whole machine as configured (including disks) not just cpus, but the HP box with dual-core Opterons smokes the Dell box with Dual 2.6 Xeons.

Videoguys have done a series of articles on building your own Video machine. They are working a a dual core machine to test.
busterkeaton wrote on 2/28/2006, 11:35 AM
In terms of sound cards what are you needs? Do you ever record on your machine? Do you do surround mixing? You probably want to look not at "computer sound cards," but "professional audio cards." That is the kind used by musicians and producers, not video gamers. Search this board, you'll find a lot of discussions. Echo and M-Audio are frequently recommended brands.

Do you have regular computer speakers or near-field audio monitors?

In terms of video cards, I don't have recommendations, but you want to make sure you have a enough power to run a couple of monster monitors at full resolution. Dual DVI ports would be nice too. I believe there are monitor calibration tools out there, that will let you adjust your LCD monitor to approximate and HD production monitor. I would be very interested in finding out how much of HD production is done on LCD screens, I would bet it's very high outside of full movie work.
SimonW wrote on 2/28/2006, 11:56 AM
Thanks Buster,

Yes, I'll be doing surround mixing. The new studio will be setup and accoustically treated to account for sound mixing.

I was considering an M-Audio card. My current editing machine has a Teratec DMX 6Fire which has served me well. I'll be wanting to use nearfields. I'll be keeping my current setup here, so everything in the new studio will be newly bought.

For monitors, I have found a nice Dell one. Although I don't really like Dell as a manufacturer! But they have a 24" 16:9 one with a 1000:1 contrast ratio that can do up to 1920x1200. Or they do a 700:1 ration one at 30".

The 24" one is almost half the price of the 30" with a better contrast ratio. I figure that two of the 24" would give me a lot of Windows working space. 3840x1200 compared with 2560x1200 for the same price. I would also need a totally colour accurate monitor for CC as well. Although those calibration devices such as the Spyder seem like a good idea. Anyone had experience of them in practise?
busterkeaton wrote on 2/28/2006, 12:39 PM
The Dell Ultrasharp monitors are quite good and almost always well-reviewed and nearly unbeatable in terms of price. I have the 17 inch model and it's nice.

Dell is constantly running specials or coupons, so if you are leaning that way, I would check bargain shopping sites, like fatwallet.com or others for specials codes. If you sign up for Dell Small Business emails, they often have codes that give you an extra deal. 20% off on those monitors is not uncommon.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 2/28/2006, 12:50 PM
> Which operating system are you using?

Follow the link to my specs in my previous post. I'm using Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/SP2. I would not use XP64 until the major applications that I use are certified to run on it without problems (and are rewritten to take advantage of it). Until then, XP32 is running just fine.

~jr
willisub wrote on 2/28/2006, 1:38 PM
The hot setup is the dual AMD Opterons. However, as talked about earlier, there are some problems if you plan on using the black magic card. I don't have one, but am considering it. Hopefully, someone will add to this, but I think some features work, but not all.

I just bought an HP XW9300 and this is the machine that BlackMagic has blessed for use with Adobe Premiere. I haven't gotten the 2nd processor yet, but just in encoding tests it runs almost as fast as my dual 2.8 xeons (HP xw8000) with just a single Opteron 2.4 GHz (Opteron 250 processor). I'm going to run like this for a while and then decide whether to add the 2nd processor or go with 2 dual core processors, which the HP will let you do.

Since the HW9300 is blessed by Adobe for use with the Black Magic card, I'm assuming Vegas will work pretty good with this, at least not have some of the prolems we have heard with the Tyan AMD setup.

The xw9300 has 3 pci-x , 1 pci, and 2 pci-e slots. Since I probably won't run more than 2 monitors, I'd use the 2nd pci-e slot for a SATA 300/mb raid card. I did a little research, and this should work, but don't hang your hat on that yet as I haven't tried it yet. It has a Firewire connection fron and back also.

I currently have a 64 bit pci-x dual SCSI ul320 card and 2- 8 drive (16 total) drive scsi to ATA Ide array which works pretty good.

I will report back one of these days after I try the Black Magic card.




SimonW wrote on 3/1/2006, 1:12 AM
Sounds good. After looking around for a bit it does seem that 2 dual core Opterons might be the way to go (hey anyone want to try an 8-way Opteron setup with Vegas? :))) )

One thing I'm not clear on though is the difference between the Opteron and the 64 X2. I know AMD are releasing a new socket type in June. Will the Opteron be phased out, or is it still the absolute highest class of AMD chip?

One other thing I'd like to know is how Vegas uses dual core and dual processors. If I have two dual core Opterons will Vegas use them all to speed up rendering, or will I only get a benefit from using the network rendering option?
GlennChan wrote on 3/1/2006, 1:28 AM
Sony still makes broadcast-grade CRTs, from <$600 ones to $60,000 ones (BVM-series, 32").

(CRT) JVC, (CRT) Ikegami, Panasonic, (LCD) Cinetal, and (LCD) Ecinemasys also make HD broadcast monitors.

2- The Opterons are the server version of the AMD processors.
1xx is for single CPU, (these Opterons are good for overclocking, which is why some people buy them for non-server use; I wouldn't necessarily recommend that though)
2xx is for dual CPU,
8xx is for quad or eight CPU systems.

rmack350 wrote on 3/1/2006, 8:32 AM
I have a less expensive Spyder at home. don't know what model it is off the top of my head but it will only calibrate one monitor in a dual display system. Their tech support claimed I needed the more expensive model but (since I write training material for these types) I suspect that's not the whole story(because I know how easy it is to be wrong.)

I think that calibrating both displays may also require a card that will apply two different color profiles to two different monitors. With my card, they seem to both get the same profile so I had to pick the one that was actually going to be calibrated. The other is just roughed in.

Rob Mack
SimonW wrote on 3/1/2006, 9:11 AM
Hi Glenn.

The only CRT's I can find on sale from Sony now are the really expensive BVM's. The others (can't remember the full number, but ended in L4) have all been discontinued and stockists over here don't stock them any more. They only stock the new Sony LCD's.

The JVC's I'm not sure about. To me they always seem to have too good a picture! And hardly any of them seem to have anything other than P22 phosphors. I have always found JVC build quality to be slightly wobbly as well. They make good monitors, but I'm still not sure of them.

Regarding CPU's, if a dual Athlon 64 X2 mobo came out, would that be quicker than two Opteron 2xx series processors?

Lastly, anyone know how Vegas utlises dual processors, especially two dual core cpu's? Can it only use one at a time, with the other core/cpu being reserved for another application or another instance of Vegas? Or can it fully utlise the power and perform parallel rendering of video files?
willisub wrote on 3/2/2006, 3:32 PM
"One other thing I'd like to know is how Vegas uses dual core and dual processors. If I have two dual core Opterons will Vegas use them all to speed up rendering, or will I only get a benefit from using the network rendering option?"

From what I understand, (and I'm going by memory) is that Vegas will like the dual opterons or 2 dual core opterons. Vegas will speed up on both sets.

However, from what I understand from my encoding systems that uses many of the same codecs that Sony uses, many codecs only use one processor. They are not dual or quad capable. I would assume windows media will take advantage of the dual opterons or 2 dual core opterons. Don't know about the rest so when rendering out, we may not see huge increases in rendering speed. Also, there is a lot of disk I/O going on and that stays the same.

On some other forums and testing sites 3-6 months ago, they suggested for 3d people and video editing systems, that from a cost performance standpoint, the dual opterons is a better way to go for raw horsepower as opposed to 2 dual core opterons. If you are going to be multitasking, rendering and doing other stuff on the same computer, then the dual cores are the way to go. It's just a huge premium on the dual core CPU’s right now.

The only way we are going to really know is to try it with 2 dual cores.


boomhower wrote on 3/2/2006, 4:35 PM
Any places in particular that have the best prices on the parts needed to build a DIY computer??
GlennChan wrote on 3/3/2006, 4:04 PM
Simon:
B&H still stocks Sony CRTs (search for sony pvm). As far as I know, Sony was going to continue making them. On their website, they even have a pdf that says the CRTs are better for critical viewing.

I haven't really sat down with JVC monitors to see what they're like. From what I remember though, they seem to be fairly neutral and not mess with your image. On one of the lowest-end models, the comb filter isn't very good (which can be a good thing, because then you see what consumer sets do; you can use S-video anyways). They may have stopped making monitors with SMPTE C phosphors.

More expensive models would be better, but it may not make sense to spend the extra money if there are other areas you want to spend money on. The monitor doesn't contribute too much to the final quality... it just lets you see things accurately. You get the most gains from moving to a consumer set or (in the field) camera viewfinder to a broadcast monitor. Past that, the gains diminish quickly.

Regarding CPU's, if a dual Athlon 64 X2 mobo came out, would that be quicker than two Opteron 2xx series processors?
THe X2s and Opterons are just different versions/variations on the same thing. The X2s will likely always be for single-CPU systems only.

2- boomhower:
If you're in the states, check out sites like pricewatch.com and pricegrabber.com for low prices.
For convenience, you might just want to get all your parts from newegg.com... so there are no shipping delays or things like that.
Check out resellerratings.com too.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/3/2006, 5:10 PM
> Any places in particular that have the best prices on the parts needed to build a DIY computer??

I second going to Newegg.com. Their prices are great and even if one or two parts are slightly higher somewhere else, I still buy my complete system parts from Newegg. They have fast shipping and an on-line RMA process so if any parts are DOA, you can get an RMA number 24/7 right on their web site and ship it back for a replacement. I’ve bought tons of stuff there and have always been treated great. I have no affiliation with them at all. I’m just a happy customer for several years now.

~jr
fldave wrote on 3/3/2006, 6:02 PM
I agree on Newegg.com. Very hard to beat, I've spent a lot of money there. Hard to beat the price/assurance of quality.