It does seem that once a tape with a minor head clog is captured the problem does get worse or more noticeable. Best advice I can give is use good quality tapes. And don't change the type of tape. If you have to then clean the heads.
I'd suggest having the heads cleaned by someone who knows what they're doing, start using the best tapes you can buy and don't reuse them. You should get no more than about one minor unnoticable dropout per tape.

OK, sounds good guys. I didn't know switching brands was a big deal. I kept going between Sony and Panasonic and JVC. Can anyone recommend a good brand that won't have this problem? Also we are getting a camcorder that can do Mini DV and DVCAM. Is DVCam significantly higher quality? Will problems like this happen less?

However, can anyone recommend anything I can do to these tapes I need to capture that I already have?

I've heard good words about the top line Panasonic stock, but it is expensive. We sell the cheap Sony stock and haven't had any complaints. Certainly switching brands a lot doesn't seem a good idea, different types even from the same manufacturer use different lubricants which may not be compatible.

As for recording in DVCAM, quality will be the same but due to higher write speed less risk of dropouts. You will use up more tape though which if your shooting weddings would be a real pain. Most of our wedding clients hire DSR250s and record onto large format DV tapes giving the 4.5 hours per tape recording DV and don't have dropout issues.

For your problem tapes, well the best DV deck is the DSR 2000 it'll usually get around tracking problems but I suspect you've simply gotten bits of data missing on the tapes in which case nothing will help. Still worth a try if you can borrow one to try it out.

I used to have the same problem with my VX2000 as well.

You will have to pick one type of tape and stick with it . I use Panasonic PQ tapes (professional) and they seem compatible with Panasonic EJ or regular tapes.
They are not compatible with Panasonic MQ tapes because the first two use a wet lubricant and the latter uses a dry lubricant.

You could use Sony tapes if you choose, but stick with one only. The situation is as bad as the DVD media situation. No standardization, just competition at all of our expense.

Fuji tapes are also reliable, but difficult to find in 83 minute type. Many have complained about TDK and JVC on the forums. I would choose between Sony or Panasonic and remember what I said about the MQ tapes.

Also, you need to pick up a Sony DVM-12CLD Mini DV Head cleaning tape. Don't clean it with another brand.
Clean the heads according to the directions and then start using the recording tape of choice. It is a good idea with a new tape each time to fast forward to the end and then rewind back to the beginning. It is said to shake any loose particles off and to ensure a smoother unwind from the feed reel. I am not sure if that has been proven or not. Maybe you should do it the first time with a set of Tibetan prayer beads in your left hand.

If you are using a DV recording deck the above rules apply as well. My editing deck is a Sony WV-DR9 and I use Panasonic PQ tapes (both MiniDV and DV) for firewire transfer and master tape recording. Had to use the cleaning tape in the beginning as well.

If the cleaning tape does not work at some point due to a really nasty head clog I would recommend having Sony clean it. It's expensive. I haven't had to as of yet so don't worry about it from now.

John

>>I use Panasonic PQ tapes (professional) and they seem compatible with Panasonic EJ or regular tapes.
They are not compatible with Panasonic MQ tapes because the first two use a wet lubricant and the latter uses a dry lubricant.
<<

I had heard this view of difference between PQ and MQ lubricants in several places but apparently it is a myth. I am going to quote a source I saved at about Xmas 2003. Unfortunately, I didn't save where I got this from. I think it may have been in one of the Pany DVX100 groups.

Anyway, this information sounds more reliable than the hearsay, common knowledge, that is circulating. Of course, I have no real direct knowledge myself -- this just seems to be the most exact information I have seen. If anyone knows where I found this, that would be helpful.

Here's the quote:
The EJ tapes, made by the Panasonic consumer division, are wet lube. I'm not familiar with the EF series, but I'd guess they are wet lube.

The Panasonic PQ and MQ tapes, made by Panasonic's broadcast/professional division, are dry lube and always have been. The PQ and MQ series are different from each other in other ways -- "the MQ series has a better emulsion that has less head wear, 4X the particle density and better retentivity," according to Jan Crittenden, who was Panasonic's product manager for the DVX100 when introduced and is now their DVCPRO/DVCPRO50 product manager. But as far as the lube goes, they are identical and interchangeable. (Some Panasonic folks were previously saying the PQ tapes were wet lube, but Jan says that she looked into it further at the factory just a few months ago and discovered that the PQ and MQ tapes have always used the same lube, namely the dry lube. My own guess is that when the new-ish MQ tapes came out, the factory promoted the dry lube aspect so prominently that it left even other Panasonic divisions thinking it was new and unique to the MQs.)

Your best bet is probably to use a separate deck for capturing from the EJ and EF tapes. The only reasonable alternative is to run the head-cleaning tape each time you change from wet lube tapes to dry or vice versa, but each head cleaning puts considerable wear on the heads. Many folks use the cheapest miniDV camcorder they can find as a deck -- it will work perfectly, as long as it has a FireWire port.

KenK

RexA,
in general any MiniDV deck is as good as the next, unless your doing a lot of shuttling peformance will be the same and I don't think many people do assemble edits on MiniDV.

There are however significant differences in tracking tolerance. If your camera is aligned correclty it's not an issue. If you somehow get a tape that's out of alignment it probably will not play on a bottom end DV deck. You'll probably find you can recover it on a DSR 2000 though. I wouldn't recommend buying a DSR 2000 though unless you've got the work for it, they are very expensive.

I just mention this beacuse on a number of occassions we've been able to play tapes on a DRS-11 that a 300 deck wouldn't and we;ve had tapes that wouldn't play on a DSR 11 that were recovered by a DSR 2000.

>>I use Panasonic PQ tapes (professional) and they seem compatible with Panasonic EJ or regular tapes.
They are not compatible with Panasonic MQ tapes because the first two use a wet lubricant and the latter uses a dry lubricant.
<<

I had heard this view of difference between PQ and MQ lubricants in several places but apparently it is a myth. I am going to quote a source I saved at about Xmas 2003. Unfortunately, I didn't save where I got this from. I think it may have been in one of the Pany DVX100 groups.

-----------------------------------------------

The information I stated came from TWO sources. A Panasonic representative that frequents the Final Cut Pro forums and the woman who manages TapeResources.com
Panasonic PQ and MQ tapes are NOT compatible. I have a Sony camera and a Sony DV deck that BOTH clogged from mixing them. I have been mixing EJ and PQ tapes ever since and it hasn't happened so I trust my sources.

Respectfully,
John

That's a bummer. If you have direct experience of clogging from switching between just PQ and MQ, I guess I can't argue. I posted the quote because it sounded like an authentic source inside Panisonic.

I say bummer because I have been using MQ and recently picked up some PQs when MQ was out of stock. The info I passed made me think this would be ok, but I haven't tried the PQ yet. Now it sounds like it may be a bad idea.

You guys just confused me a bit more (no offense) so to make it simple: for my problem, what DV tapes do you recommend I buy (and stick with) and what head cleaning tapes do you recommend I buy? I really can't afford to have this problem arise on a picky customer!

I think John's (craftech) message a few up in the thread was good advice. The main thing I have heard is to not mix tapes with wet and dry lube. I have used only Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ so far. They are very good tapes, but a bit expensive and definately dry lube. We had different information about whether DVM63PQ (next step down in quality) was wet or dry. It seems John has had problems mixing between just these two types, and using PQ with other wet types was ok. Therefore PQ must be wet.

Go back and read John's other message again - he mentioned some brands. Pick something that fits your availability and price needs and try not to change brands after you are happy.

Sorry if I confused the issue, but I have heard different reports on the two Pana tapes (PQ and MQ) but I, personally, have only used MQ so far, so don't have any direct experience.

Here's a really simple spin on this argument.
All else being equal buy tapes by whoever made your camera, same goes for the head cleaner. Stick to one formulation and buy the tape in bulk. Treat cameras and stock with respect. DV transports aren't the strongest things in the world.
If you have to change tape forumulations clean the heads.
I know this isn't ver scientific but firstly every tape manufacturer has had problem batches from time to time and secondly it avoids the problem of some smart arse techo saying "No wonder your cameras failed sir, you should only use brand xyz"

I have a JVC HD10 and in multiple conversaions with JVC techs they all recommended NOT using wet lube tape stock such as sony (entire line). There was no mention of Panasonics having wet lube, they didn't recommend any brand to buy just what not to buy. They said that the wet lube clogs up the heads.

it avoids the problem of some smart arse techo saying "No wonder your cameras failed sir, you should only use brand xyz"
==================================================
Reminds me of the cable company..............."The problem is inside the house and we're not responsible for that".

Last time I called them I had the TV playing outside on a table hooked up directly to the cable with a sign on it which read "Guess the problem isn't inside the house". He laughed and actually checked the lines in the neighborhood.

John

Does any of this apply to Digital 8 tapes as well? I have been trying to decide which Sony, Maxcell or Panasonic to go with. Any thoughts there too?

I've been using Sony Digital 8 tapes almost exclusively in my TRV-120 Digital 8 camcorder for 3 years now. I've had great success with only one instance of drop outs. Most likely the issue was related to the particular tape.

John

OK, so I have concluded to go with Sony dry tapes. Can someone recommend which exact model is best, and where online I can order them for a fair price? And what about head cleaners?

Thanks guys!

Can't help much with where to buy Sony stock unless you happen to live in Australia but Sony do make cleaning tapes.

From my post above:
"Also, you need to pick up a Sony DVM-12CLD Mini DV Head cleaning tape. Don't clean it with another brand."

John

I only use fujifilm tapes in my Canon. My wife came home and had a Sony MiniDV Tape from one of her students, i'm like no way, use a school camera :) I told her if she brought the camera I would capture, edit, and burn the dvd. It's been six months and the tape is still sitting there uncaptured.

-zemote

Well I was still wondering the EXACT Sony model tapes I was recommended

DaddyLong Legs,

I have two VX2000s, and have observed the admonition to use only one brand. I very occasionally am forced to use a clients tape brought in for editing.

I have many hours on these cameras without dropouts being a problem, and that goes for re-used tapes.

I use the Low priced Sony DVM60PRL which can be had for under $4US in quantity. I don't claim to be an expert - this is what works for me.

I'm personally doubting that the problem is a head clog since it is so infrequent.

If you don't think head clogging is my problem (which everyone else here DOES think is my problem) what would you guess it is?

Can anyone else tell me if they consider DVM60PRL to be good Sony tapes?