DV Video Capture Utility

forenow wrote on 10/4/2006, 5:55 PM
This is my first post, but I have been an active consumer of the info on this forum for some time now. Given that I have received lots of help from others, I felt I needed to contribute and offer my opinion on the vidcap.exe utility that comes with VMS (and presumably full Vegas - I've never seen anything that indicates they are other than the Sonic Foundry version).

I started out trying to capture and edit DV video using Windows Movie Maker. My daughter (13) actually used that to capture, edit, and burn her own DVD for school with no supervision. When that stopped working due to mysterious DLL issues (apparently quite common), I turned to alternatives. First, I tried Magix Movie Edit Pro and realized, you get what you pay for. Too clunky and hard to use.

So, I turned to Sony VMS, fully expecting that spending the extra money would solve my previous problems. Overall, I have been happy with the features, usability, etc. However, I lost many, many hours due to the video capture utility and frankly can't believe it.

Following the official advice, I defrag'd my hard drive, checked hard drive settings, booted in safe mode, etc., all the time thinking that Windows Movie Maker and Movie Edit Pro captured just fine without all that.... When none of that worked, I finally turned to the utility that had been recommended by several - Scenalyzer Live - and voila, it worked. No dropped frames, no data errors, even with my virus scanner still running....

From browsing the various posts here, I learned that many (most?) users don't use vidcap, relying on separate applications like Scenalyzer instead. Apparently, one guy in Austria has been able to figure out what all the programmers at Sony/Sonic Foundry couldn't: you need to buffer the incoming DV in case the hard drive is momentarily otherwise engaged. With Scenalyzer, I have captured an hour's worth of video (~108K frames) in one stream without a single dropped frame or data error (using vidcap, these manifest themselves as specks in a single frame, almost reminding you of the projector burn spots of movie theatre film).

Enough ranting...I just want to save anyone having similar problems from the pain I went through. If you have dropped frames with a new computer, it's probably vidcap, not you. Download the trial version of Scenalyzer before you try any of the suggestions that Sony offers to deflect the issue.

Got to stop now...still debugging the DVD burning issue with DVD Architect Studio. Apparently, most users don't count on that working either and instead turn to Roxio, Nero, etc. I sure wish the software I already bought worked.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 10/4/2006, 6:03 PM
I'll chime in on the other side though. I always use VidCap for capturing and almost never have any problems with it. It just plain works. And i also use DVDA for authoring and burning discs very often. No troubles with either.

I think the phenomenon you are seeing is that it's the problems that get reported in here way more often than the successes. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks use VidCap and DVDA perfectly well, and just don't bother to post in here saying "yes, they work for me too."
MSmart wrote on 10/4/2006, 10:02 PM
forenow, I use VidCap and never had a problem. What hard drive are you capturing to? If it is the system drive, that could be part of the problem. It is highly recommended that you have a second hard drive for video. Capturing to a non-system drive should solve your problems. Use the scene-detection option so you don't end up with a huge AVI file. You are capturing to AVI, correct?
forenow wrote on 10/5/2006, 4:59 PM
Chienworks - you're right that failures are reported far more often than successes. I work in the software industry and have certainly seen that.

And MSmart - you are correct that I am capturing to the system drive, and that I no doubt would get better results if I had a dedicated hard drive for capture. (BTW - I did use the scene detection option and I am capturing to AVI).

But, the point remains that many people in this forum report other capture programs working fine with the exact same setup that just doesn't work for vidcap. In my case, 3 other programs were able to capture without dropping frames, whereas vidcap couldn't with the cleanest setup possible (defrag'd disk, using msconfig to turn off all startup programs, etc.).

So, if it works fine for you, great. But if someone comes searching the forums for help when it doesn't, I suggest they try something like Scenalyzer (free trial version) first before they jump through hoops trying to get it to work.
Terry Esslinger wrote on 10/6/2006, 3:33 PM
<with the cleanest setup possible (defrag'd disk, using msconfig to turn off all startup programs, etc.).>

msconfig does not stop all the programs running in the background.I use a free program called 'enditall' to stop all nonessential extraneous processes and it will routinely find 5-8 addl processes running even after I have used msconfig.

I have NEVER had a problem with Vidcap, even when I captured to the system drive (which I do not do now) nor with DVDA burning discs. I have had some difficulty with some discs not playing on some desktop players - but that is a different issue.
PaulS wrote on 10/7/2006, 4:00 AM
Good to hear that so many people don't have issues with vidcap. I haven't had major issues with vidcap, but I use Scenalyzer instead because:

1. I often need the optical scene recognition feature of Scenalyzer when importing 8mm analog tapes
2. It displays your captured AVIs in a way that you can easily review and then combine or split them
3. It allows quick indexing of MiniDV tapes to an AVI format with reduced resolution and quality. This allows you to keep a much smaller copy of your tape on your hard drive for quick review. At a later date, you can open the quick index in Scenalyzer and mark which scenes you wish to capture, connect your camera and then import only those.
4. As stated, by forenow it is very robust. In my use, I have found that it doesn't drop frames, has never required me to shut down any programs including virus scanners, and I can keep doing other work on my computer at the same time I am capturing videos. And all of this on a 4 year old P4 with 512 MB of RAM.

So I'd say regardless of whether you are having problems with vidcap, it is worth downloading a trial and checking it out. It is simply a great tool.

Paul
Cbrus wrote on 11/28/2006, 7:17 AM
I realize this is an older thread but I wanted to respond to this myself and see what you recommend.
Some background: I starting doing video editing a year ago with a brand new computer making video productions for my kids' sports teams using VMS combining video, stills & music. Basic computer specs: 3.8Ghz Dual Core Intel processors, 2 Gig ram, 2 - 250 Gig hard drives, and using a Sony Handycam MiniDv.

My workflow includes capturing video directly from my Handycam to my PC using a firewire connection and the Sony Vidcap program that came with VMS. My program is installed on my C drive and I capture to my D drive (which still has over 140 Gig left). Overall I am happy with this program - I've never had any dropped frames either. However, after capturing several hours of video over the past several months I can't help but be a tad annoyed that the quality of my captures don't seem to match what I see when I plug my Handycam directly into my TV. Since I am dealing with Digital, shouldn't the picture be a bit sharper? I believe I am using the default capture settings in this program.

1) What settings do you recommend to get the absolute best quality when capturing from a MiniDV? (Outside of defragging my hard drive & ending background processes -- these don't make a big difference do they?)

2) For Analog capture, can anyone recommend that Dazzle tool with the RCA & SVideo plugins? (Even though it comes with some Pinnacle software for capturing analog?) I can't seem to get Sony Vidcap to capture analog via usb.

2) Slightly separate issue but how many of you recommend Douglas Spotted Eagle's advice in his VMS 4.0 book about adding .002 degrees of blur to stills to reduce interlace issues? I typically use 3-5 MB stills from Canon 30D SLR in my productions and have also noticed some flickering when I play back the finished product on my TV. Will this help?

Sorry for the very long post but I can't thank you experts enough for your help.
Chienworks wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:18 AM
1) When capturing from DV through firewire there are no quality settings. You get a bit-for-bit data transfer from the tape to the hard drive. There's nothing you can do to increase quality, or decrease it either for that matter. You either get an exact copy of the data from the tape, or you don't get anything.

2) No! ;)

Check out Canopus' ADVC line. Slightly more expensive than Dazzle, but about 493,392.104 times better.
Cbrus wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:32 AM
Cheinworks -
OK so if I am getting an exact copy I am losing some quality somewhere. When I make my movie I render as MPEG3 then send to DVDA for burning. I use Taiyo Yuden 8x disks and I burn at a 4x. Could I be losing that much quality there?

Also - Did you see my question about the .002 blur issue. Thoughts?
Chienworks wrote on 11/28/2006, 10:59 AM
You probably mean MPEG2 as this is the format used for DVDs. MPEG encoding is lossy. The encoder built into Vegas Studio isn't that great because you can't control it. You might want to try rendering to DV .avi (same format as the video from your camcorder), then let DVDA "fit to disc" and render the MPEG version itself. This will let DVDA pick the highest acceptable bitrate possible and avoid overcompressing your video.

A little bit of blur can be a good thing. I think .002 is too much, personally. I'd prefer about .0005, but since i can't type that in i settle for .001. It doesn't really cure interlacing problems, it just sorta makes them less noticeable by hiding sharp details that are exacerbated by interlacing. I dunno though, maybe my eyes work differently, but i never notice interlacing issues when using still images anyway.
Cbrus wrote on 11/28/2006, 11:31 AM
Thanks Cheinworks - I will give the Avi format a try and see if that helps.
Cbrus wrote on 11/29/2006, 6:50 AM
OK - I took my 26 minute end of season soccer video. I added .002 of quick blur FX to every still picture in the video (it was just stills no video). I rendered as an AVI, send to DVDA, it re-rendered it and burned a DVD. In this case, no major difference. I still got flickering in my pictures - mostly in the grass and on white objects -- but only from certain pictures (ones from parents without a high Megapixel camera). I didn't notice much difference in quality but the file size of the rendered AVI file was HUGE - 5.2 MB compared to 1.2 when I rendered as Mpeg. I'll try with video and see if it makes a difference in quality.