The HDX-900 shoots 100Mbps DVCPRO-HD, for which you can do a forum search here.

The SDX-900 shoots 50 Mbps DVCPRO50, ditto forum search to find the download location for the free codec for Vegas.

Both of these cameras can shoot either interlaced or progressive. Shoot progressive, this will help you get better quality in both post work and in compression for web, for DVDs, etc. Both of these cameras have native 16:9 CCDs; unless you have special reasons to want a 4:3 aspect ratio, I suggest you go with 16:9 (they're switchable).

If you end up using the HDX-900, make sure you get a good deck for tape capture. There are a lot of gotchas with DVCPRO-HD tape decks, and the cheap ($12K models) have them all. The camera owner should be able to tell you exactly what to do, but test everything first.

You'll get great picture quality with either of these cameras, but if you're fine with SD, stick with the SDX-900 and save yourself some work.

For the love of it, don't lose the 4:2:2 recording though. Not sure what the DV Rack would do in that respect.

I think I will work with the SDX-900.

The infromation on DV Rack does not specify perserving 4:2:2 but does state 26 gig/hour storage space. That makes me think it keeps the 4:2:2.

I wanted to use DV Rack to bypass the need for a deck and to use their codec. It also solves the monitoring problem.

Thanks.

Well I am finally getting closer to shooting this short. I had decided to have the DP shoot with the SDX900 and capture on DV Rack however it turns out that the SDX900 does not have firewire out.

I will need a different workflow and maybe a little help thinking this through.

I have downloaded the Matrox codec.

If I record to tape with the sdx-900 and use a Panasonic AJ-SD93 DVC Pro deck to firewire into my computer, will Vegas be able to capture the footage and edit it? I will be shooting 24pA.

If I understand correctly, the Matrox codec produces an avi file but retains the 4.2.2 color space. If I render the file out to an mpeg file for DVD architect will the 4.2.2 space still exist.

If I want to print to tape through the AJ-SD93, will the Matrox codec convert the file back to DVCPRO50?

Would I need a different codec such as the cineform?

I have been researching this but do not have a clear view of the situation. Any help would be appreciated.

My wife runs Final Cut and I am wondering if it just might be better for this project to edit on her computer, if her G5 can ingest from the AJ-SD93.

Thanks
Belker

Vegas is unlikely to be able to capture DVCPro50 because Panasonic's systems are proprietary and Vegas doesn't support them. You'd have to get the media on the hard drive in some other way.

Similarly, my understanding of what I'm reading about FCP is that FCP writes the media files in such a way that no other NLE can easily use them. So you might be boxing yourself into a corner with FCP. Don't take my word for it though as I'm just repeating rumors heard around here.

The DVCPro50 format is 4:2:2 and anything that will allow you to use the media should keep it in that space. DVDs are 4:2:0, so going there from 4:2:2 sampling would be better than 4:1:1.

Rob Mack

You should be able to capture the tapes with a SDI card to the Sony YUV codec. You'll need a reasonably fast machine with RAID 0.
I cannot vouch that this will in fact work, only done it with DigBeta but as DVCPro 50 goes down the same SDI I can't imagine why it will not work.

Bob.

SDI would work just fine, but it takes you out of the DVC Pro 50 codec. If that's a concern.

Rob Mack

Vegas, by itself, won't capture DV50 footage. DV Rack 2.0 HD will, though -- so you could use DV Rack to capture the footage and then edit on Vegas.

This project is changing. Since we are going film out, the DP now strongly recommends HD rather than just dvcpro50.

Since the SDX-900 does not have firewire, we used DV Rack to capture from the HDX-900. We were able to capture something but the video signal was faster than the audio and not in sync. I believe this may have been because of a capture bottleneck. I was capturing through a MacBook Pro via the 400 firewire port and then out via the 800 firewire port to an external hard drive. The HD footage may have been too much.

I am going to get an sata card for the express slot and an enclosure with a couple drives. This should resolve and capture/storage bottleneck. When I get these I will run more tests.

If I shoot this in HD, I am considering editing in Final Cut. The MacBook Pro and FCP are suppose to be able to handle the format. The problem I would have is not being able to monitor on a broadcast monitor.

Also, I like Vegas, and know how to get what I want with it. I dread the learning curve for FCP; however I have begun to look at FCP on my wife's MBP.

Belker

For a film out these days I'd be giving very serious consideration to either RED or the SI-2K, both are way better than HD and considerably cheaper. OK, RED still isn't shipping and is a bit of an unknown quantity but so far looking good. The SI has already been used to shoot several features, one very FX heavy and $14K buys you the whole MINI kit minus glass. File sizes are way under anything DVCProHD and image quality is way better. Unfortunately the output from neither of those is directly editable in Vegas, but who knows what V8 has in store for us!
Still starting with anything other than film and going for a film out is no trivial matter if you're trying to get it to truly look like it was shot on film.

Bob.

This a low budget short film. The DP is a friend of mine and owns both the SDX-900 and the HDX-900. He is more of a documentary shooter and generally does not have to deal with some of the issues I am struggling with. He just hands the tape to the producer when the shoot is over.

One issue that confuses me is that the HDX-900 only outputs 24pA in 1080, not in 720 and how both Vegas and Final Cut will handle this? Is 1080 the way to go?

90% of this short will be shot in a soundstage with complete light control. This should go a long way toward the look of the piece.

Belker

Belker

Well 1080 is sure a lot more res than 720 and that's not going to hurt. Vegas can handle 1080 and so can FCP, both need very fast disk arrays though and CPUs that can keep up.
One way you might be able to handle it in Vegas is to get a post house to ingest the footage to a codec that Vegas can read and then render HDV proxies. Then when alls done switch the proxies and render out. Speed at this point doesn't matter. Then send the disk(s) back to the post house for output to HDCAM. HDCAM is the standard for festival submission, so you're more than likely going to have to get it onto that at some point in the process.
Warning, I have never done any of this. If any of my suggestions are way out hopefully someone will correct me. If not still test everything before getting too far down the track. A few dollars spent on tests upfront might seem like a waste but until you've done it yourselves consider that it's vaporware. I'm pretty certain it'll work, I spoke with someone a few weeks back to help sort a problem and they were shooting on the F900 and at the same time recording a DV proxy to offline. They haven't rung back to scream at me so I guess it all worked out.

Bob.

When my employers were finishing their Ballets Russes film they did an SD edit and then uprezzed to HD with an outboard hardware converter whose name I forget. They went out to HD Cam and then from there did a film out.

It looked surprisingly good, especially since much of it originated in DV25.

That said, you should originate in an HD format.

One other thing they did was to hire a consulting editor, essentially a "fixer". He didn't really know our edit system but it didn't matter because he was hired for his experience as an editor, not as an edit system operator. You could do just the opposite for FCP, and hire an experienced operator.

I wonder if the sync issue had something to do with trying to capture 24p? I've read a few comments about this because we were just trying to step through the same process last week while testing DVCPro HD aquisition.

Rob

All great advice, especially the bit about testing.

Film people shoot tests on a regular basis and you should too! You want to be able to assure yourself of the workflow before you get very far down a path that is hard to back out of.

One of the things we were looking at when testing last week was whether to shoot at 24p or not. I'll have to ask but I think that the end conclusion was that it the extra trouble outweighed any gain. I'll have to ask because I forget what the details were.

I know you're on a low budget but keep in mind that most people in this business freely exchange the words "Movie" and "Money", as in:

We're going to make a "money". It won't be a big "money", but it'll be really good for the amount of money we have for our "money". It'll be a low budget "money" but we're going to work smart and get a great "money" for our money. We can't pay you much money, but you should feel honored to work on our "money".

Okay, that's just jibber-jabber, but maybe the point is that you need to be prepared to spend a little. Just spend as smartly as you can. Planning and testing will save you money down the line.

Rob Mack