I agree with Peter.

But I guess it all depends on your objective for a finished product.

Some people are happy with a $50 application that puts up a few menu items to click and then start the play back. I'm not one of those folks.

Some of the current limitations in DVDA are limiting - but for what I am doing they work fine for me. Some of the stuff that I can't do - well, I just don't need right now anyway. It's sort of like being armed for bear and going rabbit hunting.

Can't speak on the specs of the other application - but then again, if I can help it - I wouldn't use Adobe (unless I was being paid to do so). But that's just me. I got a real fould aftertaste after using Premeire a few years back. I can certainly do without Adobe's products.

I've been on board with SoFo for a long time. Started with Sound Forge and haven't looked back.

So get off the fence!! Besides....doesn't that hurt your butt??

:-)

Good one, kameronj! Actually, I am off the fence because I already own DVD-A and Vegas 4. I also own Premiere 6.5, After Effects, and Photoshop. IMHO, there is no competition for Photoshop and After Effects. And I actually use both Vegas and Premiere and like them both. I made the mistake of buying DVDit! PE awhile back and have been disappointed that they haven't caught up with the rest of the DVD world. So, when I got the offer to upgrade to Vegas + DVD-A for $299, I jumped. I also own Sound Forge 5 so I really don't need Adobe's Cool Edit.

The only gray area for me is the DVD-A vs. Encore question. As I mentioned, I don't like Adobe's upgrade policy (the only sensible way to get Encore is through the Video Collection for $799) because they make no distinction between existing registered owners and new users. Same price - same deal. Not my idea of a good policy for treating existing customers. So, unless there is some overwhelming feature that Encore has over DVD-A, I will probably NOT buy Encore especially if reasonably sure that DVD-A will catch up shortly (as PeterWright is confident they will). If it was still Sonic Foundry, I would have no question but now that Sony is in the picture, I'm not so confident. Sony has done a lot of really dumb things in the past and I'm not sure they are any smarter today. We'll see ...

I do think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of DVD-A and Encore and any other comparable products. Competition is what keeps the software world so vibrant and exciting. Any we, as users, almost always benefit in the long run.

Thanks for the good points, kameronj and PeterWright!

Boo-boo! In my last post, I meant Audition instead of Cool Edit. Even though that's exactly what Audition is.

I think it really boils down to what you want the authoring application to deliver. As kameronj stated, some of this is like going 'rabbit hunting armed for bear'. The dvd spec allows for a lot of neat things, some of which are harder to program than others. Authoring apps try to shield the user from having to know difficult code to accomplish the tasks, and some apps do more and better than others. Scenarist from Sonic is currently the defacto standard, costs over $20K, allows you to do just about anything and everything the dvd spec will allow, but comes at the 'cost' of being fairly complex to learn.

DVD-A in it's current form is closer to a consumer app than pro-sumer, but one can still make some pretty good dvd's with it. Hopefully there will be upgrades that will address some of the limitations, but if and when that will occur is anyone's guess. If the current version of DVD-A does pretty much what you want it too, then I would see no reason to look longingly at another application like Encore.

Encore offers a lot more features (at this point in time) than DVD-A, and probably fits that niche between consumer level apps and Hollywood level Scenarist apps. You can have multiple audio and subtitle streams, greater end user control of assets (like play all or play one), greater button control (switch audio or subtitle streams via menu control as one example), region coding and CSS copy protection, dual layer discs, addition of DVD-ROM material, excellent menu creation abilities (and tight integration with Photoshop), language setting of audio streams, to name a few. A lot of these features many can live without, and for them Encore would be overkill. It does however offer broader access to the dvd specs on the PC side of things for thousands less than one could have done before. DVDWS is on the cusp of their latest upgrade, and the buzz is that it will be highly competitive with the next wave of authoring apps and upgrades. All of this is good for us in the end--more and more features at significantly reduced prices.

Jim

Thanks for the comments, Jim. Right on the mark! With my currently limited skill set, Encore would be overkill. I am in no rush (unless I hit to lottery - then I will buy one of each just to 'play'). Until then, I will just work on pollishing my skills and trying to learn a little more each day.

Jake

This is a boring thread. DVD Architect is an absolutely disappointing app from Sonic Foundry. Sure, in total Sonic Foundry style they did what they did and they did it well, however its not much more than a slick version of like a Ulead's DVD Workshop (which in many cases is better...).

Sure it makes DVDs. There are tons of programs that make DVDs. But I expected more from Sonic Foundry. DVD Architect was as if Sonic Foundry had released MS Movie Factory as its Vegas Video 4.0. It was a joke.

Here's what should be interesting about encore:
Multiple Audio Tracks (Handled by Impression and ReelDVD befoer but their interfaces were lousy, this feature would be grate for commentarys)
Subtitle Tracks
Multiple Angles
Ability to make menus that don't look like you created them on a computer at home (like DVD-A's).

I'd like to know how all of this functions though seeing as there is no demo for the product... I hate the Premiere/After Effects interface and functioning so I hesitate to buy into Encore.

Also, does anyone know how long render/burn times are with Encore? DVD-A is the most pathetic POS when it comes to effeciently/quickly rendering a dvd and its also slower than most progs with the burn process.

Friends:

Excuse the ad, but;

I will be adding the new ADS Pyro Professional package to my store tomorrow. (Http://radcamdvd.com)

This package contains:
3-port Firewire PCI card
Adobe Premiere Pro - Full Version
Adobe Encore - Full Version
Adobe Audition - Full Version
Training Tutorials

MSRP: $599
RADCAMDVD.COM: $559.95

The product is due to ship in October.

Cheers.

Adobe aside for the moment, I bought an ADS Pyro Pro package (firewire card with bundled software) recently, just to be able to try out one of the software items, Ulead's DVD Workshop SE (almost identical to the full version) for $99 (also Media Studio VE and DVD Picture Show). I think that SoFo in mulling over any future version of DVD-A, aside from what gets repeated here most frequently, might also consider how easy it is in Ulead products to import graphic objects of all sorts, including transparency, arrange them anywhere on the screen, and freely link them anywhere in the menu or submenu. Like making a thumbnail shaped like Africa in a photo program (with transparency for the "squared off" portions), importing, and adding a motion clip to run inside it....

I note on their forum that a new version of DVD Workshop is also coming out in Q4. Could be an interesting season coming up. A lot of programs are about to become obsolete...

I too would love to have DVDA able to do end action control and all the fancy tricks that go with it.
However what is a concern is that this attracts so much attention, does the consummer really want this sort of stuff? i read an article about how to get DVD Studio Pro to create a DVD thats plays clips in random sequences, very clever but apart from some very esoteric uses just another way to confuse the poor public. Remember most of them still cannot program a VHS VCR. All they want to do is watch the movie!

What I would like in DVDA is multiple soundtracks, including karaoke control and subtitles. When you need these you really need them, the rest are nice to haves but will not stop you making a watchable DVD.

BTW to do the random clip trick you need to be pretty confident about writing code.

I agree that many viewers like a 'meat and potatoes' approach to DVD viewing. However, there are many who like the added features that more and more discs are offering. If the viewer is technically savvy enough to switch audio or subtitle streams (without menu activation), then they can generally do most or all of the other actions that the DVD spec allows. To make a disc user friendly, it is up to the DVD authorer to make this a simple as possible (like menu activated audio or subtitle stream switching without having to know how to do it via the remote only). Multiple soundtracks and subtitles for many may even seem to be not needed, although you might think its a basic feature missing. Karaoke control is a more advanced, and technically difficult DVD authoring task. It is only available on the PC side of things in Scenarist from Sonic, and Maestro from Spruce (now Apple).

DVD Studio Pro 2.0 looks a lot like Maestro (it should since many of the programmers from Spruce moved over to Apple after the buyout). The feature list is quite impressive. It has three different interface modes, from simple to complex, so almost anyone can just start using it and not get bogged down with features they don't need. I would agree that random play is somewhat of a 'gee whiz' authoring accomplishment, but Studio Pro helps shield a lot of the complex coding from the user. Auto-activation of buttons, 'active' subtitles (like the follow the white rabbit feature in the Matrix) and play lists are just a few of the things you can do with this program. Playlists are one of its coolest options. You can have a single, long video track where you set chapter points at each important event. You can then create a playlist of the chapters in any order you want, with up to (I believe) 99 different playlists. This allows for your viewers to watch the disc in a more customized fashion, without duplicating your assets. For a wedding video you could have playlists with menu selections to 'play all', or 'the vows', or 'the reception', or a button pertaining to the bride or groom only, or one family or another, etc.--all without increasing the disc size because of asset replication. For some, this option might be totally superfluous, for me it would be something I use all the time. In the end, there are probably some features we could nearly all agree on that we would like added, and others that would have less universal support. I say we should ask for them all, and if we are lucky, we'll at least get some of them.
:)

Jim

Jim,
I agree wholeheartedly.
My point about multiple languages was that from a consummers point of view it's a complication but one that serves a purpose, same with subtitles. So out of necessity they'll come to grips with how to use it.

End action control is pretty damn important too, I've had a couple of occasions when I needed to produce continuously looping DVDs, I got around it using the menu trick but it would have been nicer to do it properly.

Me thinks SoFo started on DVDA some time ago and looked at what was out there, saw a lot of stuff that either just plain didn't work or needed serious training to use so decided to produce a simple, rock solid authoring tool which is what they've done.

I've convinced one duplication facility to use it and they are rapt, basically they are converting TV series to DVD, not the sort of project that needs any complicated menus etc.

I know a lot of VV and DVDA users are into music vids so they would like to do far more complex things than that, I suspect SoFo are already working on satisfying them, I just hope they keep it simple to drive and yet able to do do as much as possible. Actually I like the DVD Studio Pro approach, if you want you get your hands dirty or else have it hold them for you.