DVD MPEG encoding

slr wrote on 2/18/2002, 1:00 AM
I recently used VV3 to render 2 hours of MPEG 2 video to burn on my DVD+RW 4.7 GB drive. The software I've been using to burn is Ulead DVD Movie Factory which has worked well for basic needs. This latest render ended up too big to burn - 5.7 GB. DVD Movie Factory could import the video, but of course it wouldn't fit on the disk.

So I went into the Main Concept options and made 2 bit rate tweaks using the DVD NTSC template as a starting point. I changed the Maximum bit-rate from 8 MBs to 6 MBs and the average bit-rate from 4.2 MBs to 3.2. This renders nicely into a 4.13 GB file.

The only problem is now when I try to import this file into DVD Movie Factory, I get a message saying the file is not MPEG compliant. I re-did the render with slightly different bit-rate settings and the same thing happened. This time, though, I copied the rendered file mid-renger (about 2.2 GB) and tried to import the copy. This worked fine. It only becomes a problem when I do a complete render.

I know its not a file size issue as DVD Movie Factory imports the entire 5.7 GB 8 MBs render. This is getting frustrating at 8 to 10 hours per render. Anyone have any ideas what's happening?

I realize this is most likely a problem with DVD Movie Factory, but they don't have a forum such as this to discuss issues. If there's a different package that can do more than Sonic's crippled MyDVD (including writing DVD+RW format), I'd gladly consider an alternative. DVD Movie Factory has been the only other thing I can find without spending hundreds on profrssional packages that have impossible user interfaces.

Hey SF, I think a full featured DVD mastering package would be a perfect companion to Vegas 3! Then I wouldn't mind spending the price since I know you'd do it right!

Anyway, any ideas would be appreciated...

Thanks,
Steve

Comments

Jamz wrote on 2/18/2002, 2:27 AM
Does Movie Factory require seperate audio & video streams? If so that could be your problem. If you had a program that could encode your audio in dolby digital, you wouldn't have to lower your bitrate to that level or even change the settings in Main concept, but since you are using PCM audio all you need to do is adjust the average to 3.4 & you could leave the maximum to 8.
kkolbo wrote on 2/18/2002, 11:23 AM
Other than not importing, does your software give an error message? It should give you some clue as to why. Anyone will need that message to assist.
stevemil wrote on 2/18/2002, 11:25 AM
For starters, there are quite a few bugs in the MPEG encoder shipped with VV3. There is a patch coming out soon, but the current solution is to install the demo of VideoFactory 2.0c. This includes the same MPEG encoder that VV3 uses, but is a newer version. After you install that, VV3 will use the new encoder. I believe you can uninstall VideoFactory and the new encoder will stay on your system.

I've been using VV3 and TMpgEnc to encode MPEG2 for import into Ulead's DVD MovieFactory. I prefer the output from TMpgEnc, so most of my experience is with that. So far, Ulead has read in every file I have created. One thing to note, Ulead may read in files over 4GB, but it does not support them if you plan to add chapters to your DVD - at least this is my experience. For me, when I load a file that is 5GB, Ulead's preview and chapter screens miscalculate the size as 1GB and only lets my set chapter points in the first 1GB of my file. YMMV.

Also, I have a tool for picking chapter thumbnails in Ulead that you might be interested in. You can find it at...

http://stevemiller.net/downloads/mfscene.zip

You just run that along with DVD MF. It will come to life whenever a "Choose a Chapter" dialog is up and help you pick a thumbnail more accurately.

- Steve
slr wrote on 2/18/2002, 11:37 AM
Hi Jamz,

Movie Factory doesn't require seperate streams. Like I said, I can import a full render at the default settings or a partial render at reduced bit-rate.

BTW, is there any "magic" in picking bit-rates. For example, you suggest 3.4 average. Should 3.5 or 3.6 work just as well? The reason I ask is that the MC encoder offers 3 preset choices. I'm just wondering if bit-rates are best picked as even multiples of some base rate...

Thanks,
Steve
slr wrote on 2/18/2002, 11:44 AM
The software puts up a very basic error message stating that the file is not MPEG compliant. No hints on what's wrong with it, etc. Don't forget, Ulead's DVD Movie Factory is a consumerized mastering package. They probably assume the user knows virtually nothing about MPEG...

Steve
slr wrote on 2/18/2002, 11:49 AM
Thanks Steve,

I do have the latest version of the MC encoder, so that shouldn't be an issue. I suspect this problem is really a bug in Ulead's product. I was able to import the failing MPEG file into Sonic's MyDVD. I just can't stand the program though.

Thanks for the pointer to the thumbnail picker. I'll check it out shortly.

Steve
stevemil wrote on 2/18/2002, 12:03 PM
Yep, I know what you mean about Sonic's MyDVD. It is one of the worst UIs ever. Also, I've had lots of problems during the actual creation of the DVD with that program, so you might want to do a test run if you haven't already.

I have plenty of complaints about Ulead's software as well, but of the 4 programs I've used under $200, it is the only one that seems to work for me. Someone else on this board posted a link to this site...

http://www.dvdcre8.com/Products.asp

It sounds very promising, but so did the other programs I bought that have mostly sucked. We'll see. Hopefully it will be done soon.

voytek wrote on 2/18/2002, 2:54 PM
did anyone try MGI 5.0 authoring with VV3 ?
DataMeister wrote on 2/18/2002, 7:57 PM
Pinnacle makes Impression DVD-PRO, as a DVD authoring package. I haven't used it, but I've been looking at it seriously. It runs in the $600 price range which isn't cheap, but it looks like it has a ton of features. It seems to be in the same feature category and price range as Sonic DVDit! Pro Edition. They also make Pinnacle Express which runs in the $50 price range.

The pinnacle web site: http://www.pinnaclesys.com has a page listing DVD player compatibility with burned media and they also list a site http://www.vcdhelp.com which has a very large DVD Player compatiblility list. In case anyone is interested.

On a similar topic, I went to a Sonic Solutions DVD seminar back in November, Bacily it was a big advertisement for their stuff, but at the time they claimed that they had the only software products that were 100% compliant with the DVD specs. Pretty good if it is true. They also said that Scenarist is what about 80% of Hollywood uses. That does give them a pretty good reputation I guess. Of course $20,000 for Scenarist is probably a little to much for anyone using Vegas Video. At least for the moment. :-)

As a final question, has anyone else used either of Pinnacle's offerings?

JBJones
stevemil wrote on 2/19/2002, 3:38 PM
I own Pinnacle Express. It was only $39, so I didn't expect too much. It looks very promising for an entry-level, home user type program. It is comparable to Ulead's DVD MovieFactory in that they walk you from DV capturing to burning with some simple wizards. The UI is by far the best I've seen for the type of customer they are targeting and the price range they are in. Simple import, preview, scene detection, chapter selection, thumbnail selection, etc.

The downside is that it only imports one type of DV-AVI (I think type 2 only) or you can capture from a DV source. No MPEG import or any other format. You are forced to use their DV to MPEG encoder, which has no user controls. Everything is at a fixed rate, so you can have a max of 82 minutes per DVD (not sure about VCD). Since I'm currently working with 2hr MPEG files, I've never used Pinnacle Express to actually create a DVD, but their message board is filled with angry people who can't burn. To their defense, I have a friend who uses it with no problems. He is their perfect customer - A home user with a DV camera, a DVD burner, and no desire to understand the detailed process of making a DVD.

- Steve
kkolbo wrote on 2/20/2002, 1:52 PM
I have Studio 7 and Pinnacle Express. Studio 7 was my primary tool until I was blessed with VV3 (which of course I love 7 times over). Pinnacle Express is great for the person who just wants to put his DV movie on a DVD. Simple, straight forward and featureless. At the price it does a nice job. Anyone who is in to it enough to use VV3 will be frustrated by PE. It has one way of doing things and that is all. It is the kind of application you would bundle with a consumer camera. In that target I like it. I like better than MyDVD which is placed for a similar market.

Many people bought PE expecting Sonic's DVDit SE or maybe a REEL DVD level of application at 10% of the cost. Those are unreal expectations. That is why they are angry. I personally use DVDit SE for my DVD's. I would prefer the REEL DVD level of functions, but I would also prefer a BMW over my Chevy Metro. Sometimes you have to make do with what you can afford.

K
SonicNateM2 wrote on 2/22/2002, 10:42 AM
stevemil wrote:
"For starters, there are quite a few bugs in the MPEG encoder shipped with VV3. There is a patch coming out soon, but the current solution is to install the demo of VideoFactory 2.0c. This includes the same MPEG encoder that VV3 uses, but is a newer version. After you install that, VV3 will use the new encoder. I believe you can uninstall VideoFactory and the new encoder will stay on your system."

NOTE: Keep in mind that if you install VideoFactory 2.0c and then remove it, you can potentially invalidate the registration information for Vegas 3.0's capture utility, causing it to prompt you for a serial number when you open it. The solution for this is to uninstall and reinstall Vegas 3.0. This will not undo the MainConcept plug-in upgrade that you did, but it can be kind of a pain if you don't have your CD's handy.