DVD - Only 1.5 hours of video or less?

organism_seven wrote on 7/18/2002, 5:18 PM
Hi,

I have just being reading up on the process of making DVDs.
According to this article in PC Pro, you can only record about 1.5 hours (most likely less after taking into account the lead-in and lead-out required) of video to a DVD disc.
Can this be right?
I am sure I have seen people advertising services offering to record 2 hours of video, or more, to DVD.
I have just produced a 1.5 hour video in MPEG2 format using the Mainconcept codec, using the default PAL DVD template.
It produced a file size of 4.68GB. So is this is too big to write to DVD?
I thought it would be a good idea to experiment producing DVD ready files before I commit to buying a DVD writer. But am I going to end up having to learn some kind of black art process just to produce DVD compliant files?
Are there any links anywhere which tell you what settings to use in Vegas to get good quality video, whilst producing the right file size to burn to DVD?

TIA

Regards

organism seven

Comments

vonhosen wrote on 7/18/2002, 6:11 PM
The length of video you can fit onto DVD is not really the question. It is all about bitrate management. To put things simply the higher bitrate, the higher quality, the more space taken up on the DVD. What you have to do is get the best encode you can for the lowest rate. It is a trade off and only you will decide what is good enough for you.
The maximum rate you can use for video & audio combined is 9.8Mbs
If you are using compressed audio (Dolby digital) this will typically only take up about 0.2Mbs of that rate.
If you are using PCM uncompressed audio you will be using up about 1.6Mbs of that rate.
From those figures you can see that PCM audio is either going to have to mean your project is shorter or the available bitrate for video is going to have to be lowered to in order to accomodate the audio (quality of video will therefore suffer).
We are all looking for the perfect encode and the MainConcept encoder is pretty good (value & quality). For example CCE encoder retails at about $2000.
If you use CBR encode you are using a constant rate throughout your video. This is whether the encode will benefit from that rate or not. Where action or detail is minimal, a lot of that encode will be wasted & will merely be padding out the stream. If your project is under 1 hour using CBR will not matter much.
If your project is longer you could use VBR. This varies the rate between a max , & min with an average rate you set. The encoder should where there is a lot of action use more bitrate & where there is less give you a lower rate, but adhere to your average over the whole video. This will save you valueable space in longer encodes. Some VBR encoders do a multiple pass in order to efficiently manage the bitrate further. They will view the whole video first to gauge where action is high & low and then encode on a further pass.

You should get good quality enocde with an average of about 6.0Mbs for your video stream, though quality of source footage will play a large part in that.

Try rendering small sections of your file with different settings to see what is acceptable to you.

The file you have created would be too big for DVD. Your whole project in authoring program (not only MPEG files & audio but menus & navigation data) can't be bigger than 4.37Gb. Your 4.7Gb disc will infact only be 4.37Gb. Media makers measure Gbs in 1000^3, your computer uses Gb 1024^3.

If you want to use a formula to work out what rates you can use for bit budgeting look at my posts on this post

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=112432&Replies=4&Page=2
seeker wrote on 7/18/2002, 6:33 PM
Org7,

> It produced a file size of 4.68GB. So is this is too big to write to DVD? <

Yes. A single layer DVD(DVD-5) holds 4,700,000,000 bytes and that is 4.37 "computer" gigabytes where 1 kilobyte is 1024 bytes. 4,700,000,000 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 = 4.377216 GB. Your 4.68GB file exceeds that, but not by a lot.

How many hours of video you can get on a DVD depends very much on how much compression you achieve in your MPEG-2 compression. Also, the quality of your audio can vary the audio space requirements. You could get as little as one hour or as much as two hours on a DVD, depending on your MPEG-2 and audio compression.

-- Burton -- ( vonhosen's message appeared after I started writing my response, so we duplicated the capacity information )
BillyBoy wrote on 7/18/2002, 7:03 PM
How much is going to fit on any DVD depends on if you use a constant or variable bitrate and also to a lessor extent the type and number of enhancements added during the DVD authoring session. The following is typical for what I've seen.

Using MC DVD NTSC MPEG-2 codec with VARIABLE biterates of 8,000,000, 6,000,000, 192,000 for max, average and minimum (the default settings for version 3.0c) I just burned a DVD with these figures:

5 seperate videos, total running time of 115 minutes, actual file size per Windows Explorer 4,384,252 prior to burning. Another 143,356,000 for overhead, thumbnails, background music for main menu and 26 sub menu items added by authering with Ulead's DVD Movie Factory.

Using properites under Windows Explorer the completed DVD in total showed 4,527,607,808 bytes used. Looking at the DVD closely it is "burned" to the very edge, so I guess I lucked out. Maybe could have squeezed a tad more on, but not much. Remember these are actual figures as reported by Windows XP which may or may not be 100% accurate.
BillyBoy wrote on 7/18/2002, 7:10 PM
Quick follow up...

Anyone ever try to "burn" a DVD beyond the size limits, and if so what happened?

Curious what DVD burner software you used, and if the last file just got corrupted or the whole disc or was it OK to the point the disc ran out of room or whatever.

Just curious. I would hate to make a DVD coaster. :-)
organism_seven wrote on 7/20/2002, 7:13 PM
Thanks "vonhose".

I will read up on your posts.

Regards
Garret008 wrote on 7/20/2002, 10:57 PM
BillyBoy -

I am curious to know how you were able to fit 115 min at a 6Mbps VBR plus overhead on a DVD. What tools did you use to compress your audio to fit that much video at that bitrate? Was it mpa audio or ac3? The reason I ask is because I am currently tooking to upgrade my current DVD authoring software which I use in conjunction with VV3. Thanks.
BillyBoy wrote on 7/20/2002, 11:22 PM
Didn't do anything special. Just did a vanilla stock render using MC MPEG-2 DV template at the default settings, then used Ulead's DVD Movie Factory which accepts the DV compliant file as-is and just adds the overhead and thumbnails. It seems to leave the 48,000Hz audio steam alone and not compress it.

Can't tell you what's going on during the burn process other than it is seven steps. Never stuck around to watch. Next time I will. :-)
Garret008 wrote on 7/21/2002, 10:17 PM
Thanks...lemme try that...(but with DVDit! SE 2.5 though)