DVD overall burn quality

Serena wrote on 9/7/2006, 11:14 PM
Have just had a couple of SL DVDs returned from New Zealand (don't think the lat/long affects the issue) because they stopped playing about 2/3 through. I can find nothing wrong with them in several players. I've been unable to learn anything about the NZ players or "what happened". These were burned on Imation blanks and because I once had problems with Imation I burned new copies using Verbatim blanks. The replacements were satisfactory. So far those two are the only ones giving trouble.

Just playing the DVDs isn't a reliable check on quality -- any recommendations for quality testing methods?

Comments

farss wrote on 9/8/2006, 12:54 AM
Tricky but the Plextor burners come with software to check error rates.
I have a Plextor CD burner but the supply of Plextors seems to have dried up down here. Still thinking about importing one directly.

BTW, I've mentioned this before I think but it seems these new 16x disks are the cause of some of the problems.

Bob.
Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 12:58 AM
Thanks Bob. These were 8x, but I remember your note.

Serena
farss wrote on 9/8/2006, 2:01 AM
Other possibility which you've probably already thought of is that their DVD player is dying. The ability to play burnt media goes first.
craftech wrote on 9/8/2006, 4:43 AM
Serena,
What is the media ID code of the media?

At what speed did you burn them?

What program did you burn them with or did you use a duplicator or did you send them out for duplication?

John

I have five different players for testing including some bad players (Cyberhome). I use TYG02 and burn at 2X - 4X making the original with DVDA and the rest in the duplicator I built. I don't get any of them back.
ScottW wrote on 9/8/2006, 5:28 AM
Nero has a test utility that can tell you what the error rates are like and give you an idea of overall burn quality.

Keep in mind that you'll always have some errors with burned media, it's usually the excessive errors that cause most players problems and it's not always related to the media.

I have 2 VHS to DVD transfer machines and the DVD's they burn get an overall quality rating of 40% from Nero. If I take the DVD and re-burn it to the exact same media (8x) in another burner, the quality of the resulting product is in the 90% range.

--Scott
riredale wrote on 9/8/2006, 8:42 AM
As mentioned, there is an excellent utility called "CD/DVD Speed" by Nero, available as a free download here. If your burner is supported, it will allow you to quantitatively check a disk for errors.

Every disk will have numerous errors, simply because so much is asked of a technology in which there are so many variables. But the DVD spec is loaded with error-correction methods, and unless the disk is really bad you won't see any glitches on playback. The Nero utility gives you an inside look on the error level.

Do a search on this board--this has been discussed many times before. Rule of thumb--the brand of disk and the brand of burner make a difference. I am sold on Taio Yuden 8x DVD-R blanks, available from Meritline for only about $0.30 each in quantities of 100. I also like my NEC burner, though I have also had excellent results with Pioneer burners in the past.
Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 6:44 PM
OK, daylight again here and the sun is shining.

Craftech: you're going to have to tell me how to determine the media ID code. They are Imation SL DVD-R blanks and that's where I stop on that question! They were burnt at 8x, using DVDA-3. I burnt them myself, using a Sony DRX-800UL.

Scott: I had a look at the Nero utilities I have installed but while that gave me information about the disk I couldn't find anyway to look at error rates.

Riredale: you have given me the link I think I need (haven't looked yet). Yes, I suspect that the players concerned might have been restricted in smarts and less able to cope with errors. The clients were not equipment savvy. The issue of media certainly has been dealt with on this forum and under its guidance it is a long time since I've had a problem. In fact when I started in this video business I had trouble with Imation blanks and it was information here that sent me off to Ritek disks (which had been fine). So it was a bit stupid using Imation again, but they were stocked locally and my tests this time gave me "no problems". However this was rather qualitative and not (as it proved) sufficient. Mind you, one returned disk was covered in scratches and finger prints and played when cleaned!

Thanks for all replies.

Serena
Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 8:19 PM
Right, learning more about Nero. Media ID is : CMC MAG.AE1

Running Scandisk over the DVD in question I got 100% "good".

Disk Quality: PI errors, av=62.51, max=287, total=508700

PI Failures: av=1.77, max=74, total=51702.

The running time is 54 minutes.

You might like to comment on these numbers.
Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 11:33 PM
Checked several disks as well as the 2 returned and there seems to be little difference between them. The Verbatim puts up slightly fewer errors and gets a slightly better "quality" rating (95 v 93), the greatest difference being in results on different DVD drives. Of course I have no way of checking non-computer players and certainly not those in other parts of the world.
craftech wrote on 9/9/2006, 5:23 AM
Serena,
The media ID code you have for the Imation discs doesn't seem to fare that badly in terms of reliability. The reason I asked is because brand name is not an indicator of manufacturer. It can change almost daily. You can also use the free utility DVD Identifier to determine it.

That said,
I would recommend either the generic Verbatim DataLife Plus that contains the media ID code MCC 02RG20 or Taiyo Yuden that contains the media ID code .

Since the user reviews on the Imation with the CMC MAG. AE1 media ID seem to be generally favorable it wouldn't appear that you should NOT have had so many returns. It may also be that that particular media doesn't burn as reliably with that particular burner and/or that particular firmware at that particular speed.

You might want to experiment with a different burn speed, perhaps 4X. Unfortunately there don't appear to be any hard and fast rules in terms of compatibility. Generally the 8X media doesn't seem as reliable as the 4X media was and the 16X media even less than that. It also doesn't seem to be getting any better either. At one time you could use the media ID code to make a determination in terms of compatibility and get ANY brand that contained that particular ID code. Now it appears that it varies and I have no idea why. Makes our job ever increasingly difficult and it seems obvious to me that WE are not the primary target customer for the blank media. The movie rippers are.

John
Serena wrote on 9/9/2006, 5:38 AM
John,
Thanks for the information; good stuff. The Verbatim disks were MCC 02RG20 and these worked in the NZ players, even though Nero found little difference in the burned disks. I did mention to the first client that DVDs are not as robust as commonly believed and that scratches and peanut butter tend to degrade playability. The links you've given will be useful. Thanks again.

Serena
riredale wrote on 9/12/2006, 9:14 AM
I've been amazed several times that I can take a really horribly-scratched DVD that looks like it's ready for the trash and yet utilities such as DVD Decrypter can still make a perfect copy of it. I assume it does so by slowing way down and making repeated reads until it gets all the information it possibly can. A new disk made with that data then will play fine.

Haven't heard of any peanut-butter read technology, though. Especially crunchy.