DVD rendering act II - tough times here...

the_ripper wrote on 1/30/2003, 9:52 AM
P_l and the gang- I have finished my first DVD Movie, it is pathetic. Here is the details, I need ideas from anyone that mastered this with good rendering software( I am open to buy new again, Pinnacle?VV upgrades?).

The movie is jerky, with drop-outs. I used ULEAD to render(I hate more and more each day, I only like it as a disk burning tool). I get the same results as I got with ULEAD with rendering SVCD's. I dont have SF as a fall back, SF does NOT render in DVD right? Here is what I used in ulead MOVIE FACTORY I for settings (which may be wrong, please provide feedback if your settings are better in ULEAD or work well):

Filesize- 1.75 GB - 38 min clip (seems too big) I cant fit a full movie on 1 dvd, I may have a sampling issue? HELP!
Main concept mpeg2
streams 2
48000 hz stereo
720x480 32bit
29.97 fps

Comments

Simmer wrote on 1/31/2003, 9:23 AM
P_I...

I can only mention what works for me.

I use VideoFactory to capture and edit and render to DVD-complient AVI.
I then use a package called DVD-Complete by Dazzle to encode my AVI to MP2 and author my DVD.
I instruct DVD-Complete to encode using variable bit rate from max of 8Mhz to min of (I forget here) I believe about 2.

Depending upon the complexity of the source video I can usually fit between 1.5 to 2 hours on a 4.7Gig DVD-R with very good, consistent results.
My source AVIs of about 2 hours are typically about 25 Gig (you can extrapolate from there).
Your specs of stereo, fps, etc. look very similar to mine.

The results seem to be very good each time.

Again:
Capture, Edit, Render: ------------> SonicFoundry VideoFactory (apx. $50)
MP2 Encode, DVD-Author, DVD-Burn ---> Dazzle DVD-Complete. (apx. $100)

-Mike
the_ripper wrote on 1/31/2003, 9:38 AM
Thanks for the tips- How do you render in VF? to me render means convert or render the .avi to mpeg2(DVD)? This cant be done in SF. So Dazzle does your render? How long does dazzle take?I started with dazzle and through it in the trash a year ago. It had major lip sync bugs. Thats why many of us are here at SF today...I shrug giving dazzle more money. The Dell Dazzle Breakout bridge was nothing but trouble, a waste of $269. All I could salvage was the Firewire card, which also is flakey at times. This whole thing is still a big pit of black magic and secrets, I dont know why I bother, but I really want to lick this. I have great source AVI material, Now I just want a good FAST DVD rendor. Tempg seems good, but very slow on my system, even with DMA enabled. - the_ripper

FYI P_l is another user not me, it was a summons to have him answer ;)
JJKizak wrote on 1/31/2003, 1:33 PM
My .02c. From the bits and pieces of info in your post I would assume that
you are re-encoding your MPEG2/DVD file which is a no no. A 1.75 gig file
should be a piece of cake on one disc (4.7gig). Check the default setting
on the MPEG2 codec in Ulead if possible and if it is 7.4 megs CBR change it
to 8megs VBR. In a lot of these cheapo programs if you don't capture in
DV/AVI they no worky. A lot of people on this forum don't like Pinnacle
(including me) The main Concept codec is used now in Adobe Premier, Vegas,
Videofactory, Ulead, and Dazzle so your codec is not the problem.
You did not mention what burner you are using and even if it was a DVD burner and not a CD burner. Details, details. Everybody that starts out burning DVD's
has to go through a sort of "gauntlet of software and hardware loops" to
finally reach pay dirt. Sorry for the philosophical anomolies.

James J. Kizak


p_l wrote on 1/31/2003, 4:29 PM
Also, the_ripper, what is your source file format? You mention .avi, but is it DV-AVI, DivX, something else? If you capture it, from what source and what are your procedure/settings, inclcuding Frames Per Second (e.g., 29.97fps, 23.97fps, 15fps)? This can be verified by loading your source file in VirtualDub and selecting File/Information.
the_ripper wrote on 1/31/2003, 6:50 PM
follow-up-
Guys, I am capturing in VF. Standard capture AVI Mode. Keep in mind we need to convert these to avi2 for ULEAD to work, otherwise you get a 1 gig clip in ULEAD(others are figting these on other posts, (P_l you solved this a year ago with the canopus converter, which is now a DEAD LINK just so you know...). To further add both AVI's I have are flawless. They are crisp even at full screen. The source is not the issue. The Burner is a Sony DVD burner, the new one, drx-500ul. it is a great burner...so we are back to the issue of DVD render. AVI-->DVD format. ULEAD caused jerky drop outs. ULEADS site ha sthis jitter crap posted as well (very lame board, nothing like these forums). what I can do is play games with variable data rate;

in the ULEAD DVD setup they are at 6000 VBR for video
and they are at 384 for audio
field order A
the other settings are standard....SHould I be tweaking these? can these settings affect the magic here? it happens during fast scenes, action parts of movies. otherwise they are crisp clear with great dvd sound. the_ripper


p_l wrote on 1/31/2003, 7:28 PM
I know that Canopus changed the URL for its File Converter a while ago, but since they did I've been providing the new link for it: Canopus DV File Converter.

Here's something to try: I believe DV-AVI, if it's interlaced, is normally field B first, not A, so try adjusting that.
the_ripper wrote on 1/31/2003, 9:15 PM
P_L that link is dead. For me anyway? do you have privilages? I already downloaded ages ago, however some may have trouble. I just clicked it again for a test, and no-go, page not found...Is 6000 good for a VBR or should it be raised or lowered to help action? which direction helps action scenes? the_ripper
p_l wrote on 1/31/2003, 9:49 PM
The link works for me, and I don't have any special privileges that I know of. Anybody else? Anyhow, here's the URL: http://www.canopus.com/US/products/DV_file_converter/pm_dv_file_converter.asp

You can also get it here:
http://www.dvideohome.com/canopus_dv.htm


For your encoding problem, first look at the field order, and try field B first.

But since you mention you are doing VBR, 6000 for average bitrate seems OK (you could try 7,000 or 8,000), but what are you setting as your maximum and minimum? I'm no expert, but I think you shouldn't go below 2000 for a minimum, and 8,000 or 9,000 should be your maximum. Others who know more about this can jump in here. I don't remember where (or if) you can set this in MovieFactory, since I now usually encode in TMPGEnc, but if you choose TMPGEnc's "unlock" template, you have these options. I'm still doing VCDs and SVCDs, but I think the principle is the same for DVD VBR encoding.
IanG wrote on 2/1/2003, 7:10 AM
The link's fine for me.

Ian G.
JJKizak wrote on 2/1/2003, 10:45 AM
Set to 8mgs VBR, 6mgs average, 2.5mgs min, max quality, DVD, 29.97,
and separate video and audio streams. All others to default. You really
should not go over 8.0mgs as the DVD writing applications stack the audio
and menus on top the 8.0mgs and might push you to the 9.8mg limit. You must
absolutely not re-encode. If the file is multiplied to humongous (3 times bigger than input file) and won't fit on the
disc I would suspect re-encoding. Also during the DVD authoring software
file creation if it is taking a very long time it is re-encoding because
the input file is not DVD compliant. (need an engineer to explain compliant)
Some applications will say "transcoding" which means "not re-encoding" and
if it is re-encoding it will say "re-encoding video". "Transcoding" means
converting a DVD MPEG2 file to a DVD udf vob file format. You will also see
"Transcoding" audio file if it is 44kc sampling instead of 48kc sampling.
Perhaps someone of great knowledge can enlighten us further.

James J. Kizak