DVD rendering at low quality.

DaveWalker wrote on 7/30/2012, 7:44 AM
I have created a video in vegas from a sixth form prom. It consists of a slide show of stills, and then goes into to a portion of video.

I have exported the video, it plays fine on my computer. Uploaded it to the web, still looks great. But as soon as I render for DVD the quality goes down the swanny.

I am using DVD architect, creating a single item project. The first part of the slideshow using the still looks terrible, pixelated and with loss of detail. Though I am not really noticing anything up with the moving video part.

I am using the DVD architect PAL video stream setting, and have set eveything to the highest possible setting with no effect.

Can anyone suggest why this might be?

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 7/30/2012, 11:00 AM
What size are your stills?
Are you doing any panning, cropping, zooming?
What are your render properties?
DaveWalker wrote on 7/30/2012, 11:14 AM
I have tried various images sizes, including full size straight out of camera (4956x3304) and resized to 1920x1080. This seem to have no effect on the output quality at all.

The render settings I am using are;

Mpeg2 720x576 PAL template with render settings set to to 8,000,000 max, 6,000,000 average, 3,000,000 minimum.

Not doing any panning, cropping or zooming. It's just a simple straight slideshow using the 'import slideshow' utility, 3 seconds per image with 1 second transitions.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/30/2012, 11:21 AM
Good information.
Can you upload a sample video somewhere or post a still that shows what you are seeing?
I'm not sure what "import slide show" does in Movie Studio?
Have you tried placing the stills directly on the timeline?
Have you tried the "reduce interlace flicker" setting or a progressive render?
Bitrate is not a huge consideration with stills that are not in motion, due to the efficient nature of intraframe compression.
bill-kranz wrote on 7/30/2012, 11:26 AM
There are so many variables when working with still images, the editing/rendering process and the burning you should keep some kind of record of what it is going to take to get a good output. (Avoid mixing different resolution-sized images and avoid web images...)

You can also create test videos of just a small amount of images so that when you read your project properties you will get to know what works best.

I am about to create my first slideshow with VMS from images that are 3.0 mb and I know I will have to do some experimenting along the way to get it right. Fortunately I shot most of my photos so it will be easier for me to work this out.

Best of luck;
Bill
DaveWalker wrote on 7/30/2012, 11:28 AM
I have a comparison of some screenshots. On the left is from an mp4 which was used for online hosting. on the right is the mp2 for dvd which I am having trouble with.

http://bass_junkie.cozywebhost.com/gallery2/d/11454-2/poor+video.jpg

At full screen, it is very blocky and pixelated, particularly on edge details.

I will try and upload a sample video when I am home.

I have tried the 'reduce interlace flicker' both on and off with no effect. I have not tried a progressive render, I don't think, unless that is a default setting. I am pretty new to video and have not come across that yet. I will look it up and give it a go.

Thanks for your help!
musicvid10 wrote on 7/30/2012, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't expect the kind of results I see in your upload, but I think we can pin it down by asking the right questions.
You are rendering to mpeg-2 directly from stills on the timeline, and not from a previous mp4 render, is that right?
Is "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings" turned off?
DaveWalker wrote on 7/30/2012, 1:53 PM
Yes that is correct, I am rendering from the vegas project, not converting a previous render.

Adjust source media was on, I have now tried it off with no effect.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/30/2012, 3:27 PM
Have you checked your DVD Architect project settings?
Can you upload an original still someplace?
Sorry for all the questions, this isn't making much sense yet.
DaveWalker wrote on 7/31/2012, 1:47 AM
I have made a short sample slideshow to test with to try and get this sorted. I have uploaded original images, my project file and the rendered mpeg2 to here.

http://davidwalker-photography.co.uk/testvideo/

I have not got as far as dvd architect yet, I gave up on that stage because the mpeg2 files playing on my pc are poor.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/31/2012, 11:03 AM
OK, here is the situation as I see it.

-- With high resolution stills, you will retain 85% more of the original image data if you make a BluRay rather than a DVD.

-- As it is, the resizing of your stills down to DVD resolution is throwing away 97.5% of your image information. That's right (it's just math). If you resign yourself to the fact that your DVD retains only 2.5% of the original image data, living with the format limitations will be easier to understand.

-- Vegas uses bicubic resizing algorithm, much like older versions of Photoshop. Although it's good, it's not the best available. I took the liberty of resizing your stills to project dimensions using Lanczos in Irfanview, applying a bit of sharpening in the process. You can see the results here, using the same bitrates you mentioned above.

Right-click and "Save link as"
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20519276/UntitledR2.mpg

-- Your playback levels are clipped, because your stills are RGB levels and DVD is REC 601 levels. The result is more contrast and missing highlight and shadow details in your movie than in your stills. This alone can make the .mpg look softer. Apply a Computer RGB->Studio RGB Levels filter at the output. The preview will then look flatter in Vegas. This is OK.

-- Also, you must place a 16-16-16 blocking track under the video on the timeline to properly conform the black levels.

-- Mainconcept MPEG-2 is a very good consumer codec for motion video. It is not optimized for high saturation stills or CG, and carries a little softness because of that fact. Some people think the paid TMPGENC encoder is a bit better. A more costly solution is the Cinemacraft encoder, which is geared more toward professional use.

I'm not able to open your .vf project on my version of Vegas Pro; I will see if I can install the VMS 11 trial, and perhaps offer more observations.

I can tell you are a top notch photographer (I was 20+ years in commercial finishing), and it is disheartening to see our work lose its luster in transition to the telly. The best solution by far, is to implore your bride and groom to put a BluRay player on their gift list, and proudly present them with a HD video on BluRay of the wedding.

More to come.
;?)

DaveWalker wrote on 7/31/2012, 11:33 AM
Thank you so much for help. I knew there would be a reduction in quality, but not by that much.
I think being used to watching DVD films, there was an expectation that it would be a lot closer than it actually is.

My journey into video has been proving to be a bit slow and painfull. There are a few things that you mention that I am not familiar with, (RGB filter, 16-16-16 blocking track etc). But I shall look into those and see what I can work out.
Markk655 wrote on 7/31/2012, 11:40 AM
MusicVid,

I just wanted to say thank you for the informative response. It is always nice to read posts from those with significant experience in the area.

Thanks!
musicvid10 wrote on 7/31/2012, 12:01 PM
"I think being used to watching DVD films,"

That's a pretty common mistake on one's first outing.
The glass alone on one of their cameras costs more than my home.
Their encoders, well, add a boat and SUV!

The link is now up. Have a look on VLC and see if you like it better.
I'll be glad to walk you through the steps, but a little later in the week, I'm right in the middle of a photo restoration project.
Do consider producing BluRay in the future.
DaveWalker wrote on 8/3/2012, 12:42 PM
Thank you for all of your help, it's helped me understand a lot if nothing else!

I carried on playing, and seem to have found another solution that worked really well.
Instead of rendering an mpeg2 file from vegas, I used the Sony HD 1920x1080 mp4 codec which of course produced a high quality render. Then added this to DVD Architect and let that do the conversion to mpeg2 and the quality is infinitely better than the vegas mpeg2 render!

I can't offer any explanation as to why. All I can think of is maybe Sony deliberately limit the quality for DVD in the non-pro versions of their software to stop people using it to make commercial DVD's?