DVDA 1.0a or 2.0 ?

googull wrote on 3/21/2003, 7:25 PM
Call it a wish list or a missing features list. I suppose it depends on what you expected and how "professional" one expects DVDA to be. I find the following issues to be unthinkable for a leading edge product at this price point to lack.

1. The lack of “end action control”. See discussion titled: “Control after scene completion”.
2. Inability for menu background audio to span menus. Audio has to be specified for each menu and if it is the same as the prior menu the audio “restarts”. I’d expect a feature to extend a single audio track across all menus. One continuous audio track that doesn’t “restart” when moving across menus.
3. Inability to copy and paste menu item (object) attributes from one object to another. Menu size, text size, etc. I’d expect a feature to set the default size for menu objects – the “Scene selection menu” objects are all too small.
4. Support for constructing and saving themes inside DVDA. The help file says "Use Unzip and play with the XML script, rezip, etc - This is what I would expect from an OEM version of a DVD mastering product.

Until there is a 1.0A or 2.0 version of DVD-A is there another product that someone can recommend that covers the basics as well as the mass market products but also provides for the level of flexibility to warrant the "professional" attribute?

Comments

Rain Mooder wrote on 3/21/2003, 7:38 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe request (2) is technically
possible given the DVD specification.


>2. Inability for menu background audio to span menus. Audio has to be specified for >each menu and if it is the same as the prior menu the audio “restarts”. I’d expect >a feature to extend a single audio track across all menus. One continuous audio >track that doesn’t “restart” when moving across menus.
PeterWright wrote on 3/21/2003, 8:13 PM
Yes, there will always be requested new features and so on, but when using terms like "at this price point" remember that DVDA is extremely cheap for the features it already has, and particularly as it includes an AC3 encoder.

I consider it already a professional product, as do my clients who just love what I have already been able to produce. No doubt in due course enhancements such as end actions etc will be added to make it even better.
seeker wrote on 3/21/2003, 8:13 PM
Carl,

A couple of suggestions of things to look at:

DVDlab is not released yet

Ulead DVD Workshop

Incidentally, DVD-a 1.0a is available now, but is mainly a bug-fix.

-- Burton --
seeker wrote on 3/22/2003, 1:41 PM
Dustin,

"Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe request (2) is technically

One of the reasons for buying Jim Taylor's "DVD Demystified" book is that, "You MUST read it if . . . you can't afford $5,000 for the official DVD specification books." Well, I can't afford the $5,000 and what's worse, I didn't buy the DVD Demystified book either, so, guess what? I am DVD mystified. Is that poetic justice, or what? But I definitely plan to buy the third edition of "Demystified" which, in my opinion, is overdue. Meanwhile, I have no idea whether Request#2 is allowed by the DVD spec or not.

Why Buy DVD Demystified?

But your question brings up another interesting question. Should we, or the DVD authoring software that we use, slavishly obey the DVD spec? And has the spec been recently revised? And should it be further revised? I personally thought the "continous music" idea is very good and if the DVD spec prohibits it, then the DVD spec should be revised to allow it.

It is apparent that current standalone "set top" DVD players (does anyone really try to balance their DVD player on top of their TV?) do not slavishly comply with the DVD spec. Most do not support all the features in the spec (like for instance, DVD-Audio) and others support obvious violations of the spec, like successfully playing "naked" MPEG2 files.

Don't get me wrong, standards are a good thing and without them we would have chaos. But, oops, let's face it. Even with the DVD standards, our current DVD player/media/authoring market is chaos. So it's not like we can avoid a future chaotic situation by taking a "holier than thou" adherence to the DVD Commandments. Too late. As far as the DVD specs are concerned, this is an "I am their leader and I must catch up with them" situation.

In the field of disc-based video there are many other "standards" such as VCD and SVCD, but even those informal standards are routinely violated by such things as XVCD and XSVCD and many of those "rogue" formats are supported by various models of standalone DVD players. If a segment of the DVD player market chooses to support a new feature, then people will burn discs to take advantage of that feature. This is sort of a "if we build it, they will come" phenomenon.

So, with all that pre-amble-ish stuff said, I think it would be quite appropriate for DVD Architect to support the continuous music feature if any significant number of current standalone DVD players will play it. The criterion should be more, "will it play?" than "does it obey the spec?". In my opinion.

Now, you might say that when the authoring software offers to let you insert a feature that is not universally supported by all of the DVD players out there, it should warn you. But in my opinion that is too strong a precaution, because essentially no features are universally supported. It would be annoying to have the authoring software warn you about everything. After all, if you choose to burn a DVD+R, you should be aware that some DVD players won't play that media and you are willing to take that chance without any "Mother, may I?" interference. However, if you choose to do "continuous trans-menu background music" and a significant number of players do not support that feature, then a warning "Are you sure you want to do that?" dialog would be appropriate.

I think that a future DVD Architect 2.0 should not be restricted by strict compliance with a possibly outdated DVD specification, but DVDa2 should be more concerned with what actually works in the user's DVD players. I yield the floor back to you all. [Yes, I used to live in Texas.]

-- Seeker --
pb wrote on 3/22/2003, 6:57 PM
I really hope to be able to do a major project with DVD-A, even if it means getting up at 4:30 AM each morning to experiment until it is time for the one hour commute. I have done some small jobs with it and was amazed it is so slow. MPEG2 hardware encoded at constant bit rate AND Main Concept encoded via Vegas take forever to re-render for some reason. My pioneer A03 and A04 refuse to burn at anything other than 1X, which is weird. Time isn't really a problem though because we have DVDA on two PCs at work and one here, just have to get a better handle on layout and such. That's why this forum is on my favourites list for the moment. Hopefully we can retire DVD complete soon but for now we must produce DVDs everyday and have little time for experimentation.
googull wrote on 3/24/2003, 6:37 PM
I checked out several.

Too bad DVD Lab isn't available yet - it looks excellent.

DVD Complete (Dazzle) - is quite capable and affordable but in my case it hung the PC consistently. It also had a problem with my Matrox video system (square blotch under the mouse pointer) which was surprising as I've no trouble with any other video editing application.

ULEAD DVD Workshop – spendy but complete! The demo is fully functional and it does EVERYTHING I need (except wish item #2). The Thumbnails were sharp and clear, the motion controls worked well, end actions, copy paste attributes, etc. My DVD menus results look exactly as I want. The UI is a bit arcane but the application is certainly robust providing as much control as anyone would desire. This is the type of capability I expect from a DVD authoring tool at or above $200. Not everyone needs AC3 or its space saving capability nor wants to pay for it.

Thanks for the tips SEEKER. I as well am obviously DVD mystified and intend to seek out the next release of text you mentioned.

I purchased DVD Workshop, I can’t wait around for DVDA to catch up with Vegas. These two products are similar in appearance only.
wobblyboy wrote on 3/24/2003, 9:13 PM
I have been using DVD Workshop and am very satisfied with it. I have been trying out DVD Architect Demo for two months and just purchased it.

Things I like in Workshop are:
Easy to set first play, clips are sequenced so you can set afterplay to next
clip., good layout, easy to learn and use.

Things I like about DVD Architect are:
Preview of motion menus and buttons, import of markers from Vegas for Chapter
points, automatic scene selection menu for chapter points, unlimited undo,
timeline style editing for setting chapter points and in and out points,and
selection of any frame in timeline for thumbnail.

I felt that Workshop was laid out in a way that made it very easy to learn and use. I had to dig a little harder to figure out how to do what I wanted to do in Architect, however once I got it I think I the workflow was easier and faster. Also I hope someday to use the AC-3 Encoder and the price from Ulead for their encoder was the same as it cost me to upgrade to Vegas+DVD. After using Workshop for several projects and testing Architect, I expect, unless there are major problems with burning and burn preparation, that I will favor Architect. I also expect that it won't be too long before Sonic Foundry adds some new features to their capability.

Anyway, at this point I have both systems and I think both are good.