DVDA----baby steps

scsinuts wrote on 3/11/2003, 6:53 PM

I don't want to be completely negative about DVD-A, at it's pricepoint it does a decent job. I'm am an experienced user of Impression pro (has problems) and Reel DVD (lacks features for it's price). The most important feature of DVD authoring program is for the disk to work properly. DVDA has passed this test (with the exception of really bad looking still menus which I understand is already being addressed, DVDit! had the exact same menu issues when it was first released.)

There are a few things I think EVERY authoring tool should have for the user to have enough flexibility to effectively create a DVD. This is where DVDa is truly lacking. Personally, I think navigation is more important than "motion" menus. Sure motion menu's are great and all, but most DVD creators want the user to be able to navigate the disk without frustration. Here are my suggestions for what the product needs to get past "consumer" level to at least approach the "prosumer" level.

Im not even going to number this first one.....THE ABILITY TO RENAME A MENU WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE ITS NAME IN THE DEFAULT "TEXT."

now on to the list

1. The ability to set a "default" selected buton to be active on every menu. I would like to know how DVD'a decides this- does it pull a rabbit out of a hat on this one?
2. The ability switch betwee show button gfx/show button links (during the authoring phase)
3. The ability to set button states (inactive/selected/pressed)
4. The ability to move buttons one pixel at a time (using the arrows toggles between buttons, MOST frustrating)
5. The ability to set up-down or left-right navigation, with the ability to "loop" navigation properties (when the active button is the bottom button, pushing "down" on the remote takes you back to the top)
6. Ability to zoom work area past "100%" for placing buttons, etc.
7. Ability to set the "return" button. Or- automatically set the "menu" buttons to "return to last menu" if they are sub-menus or movies off of menus, especially off of scene selection menus.
8. Ability to set "title" or "root" menu.
9. ABILITY TO CREATE A BUTTON AND SET IT'S NAVIGATION TO ANOTHER MENU OR SUB-MENU. This one I don't think we will be able to live without and should absolutely be the basic function of any authoring tool. I still can't believe that it can't be done in this package!
10. Ability to create a DVD Image, and not just the video and audio_ts folders.
11. THE ABILITY to use an outside image editing program (read:photoshop) to create menus and buttons. Pinnacle's impression pro definately got that one right.)
12. The ability to set a "next" state for any video clip. (when video one is complete, go here next)

Now, notice I didn't ask for "everything the DVD format offers." I know this is unrealistic at this price point. I would however say that to offer Dolby 5.1 and motion menus before offering some of the basic functionalities listed above is almost like putting the cart before the horse.

I have really high hopes for this product, if they can make it into anything like the powerhouse that soundforge has become, it has a really bright future.' I'm already impressed with the playability and functionality of the DVD's it creates.

P.s I'm sure that some users are going to look at the above list and say "hey, dvd-a does THAT." If you come across that situation, POST IT HERE!!!!!

David Yopp
www.afteraction.com

Comments

jetdv wrote on 3/11/2003, 8:22 PM

4. The ability to move buttons one pixel at a time (using the arrows toggles between buttons, MOST frustrating)

Try CTRL-ALT-Arrow

ArysChien wrote on 3/11/2003, 10:24 PM

Hi David, I don't have an answer for any of the list, but I agree totally. Now about what you said about the bad looking still menus:

"...with the exception of really bad looking still menus which I understand is already being addressed, DVDit! had the exact same menu issues when it was first released."

Do you mean DVDit! doesn't have this problem now? Can you compare the both? cause I don't know when the update will come out and if I should wait for it instead of turning away.

Thanks in advance

Arys Chien

scsinuts wrote on 3/12/2003, 12:18 AM

Sure I can compare...Just for the sake of argument, when I talk about DVDIt! I will be talking about the Professional Edition(PE)

Yes, DVDit! fixed it's menu problem a long time ago. Their menu's looked as bad if not worse than still menus from DVD-A

For DVDit! consider the following:
1. Solid navigation functions
2. AC3 (stereo only, professional edition only)compressor included
3. NO motion menus
4. poor to fair interface (impressions pro and Reel DVD have better gui's imho)
5. will not accept 5.1 (this is not a big deal for me, I haven't done anything to date that would require that many channels of audio.
6. I think the DVDit! PE will cost you more than DVD-A
7. resulting DVD's have been really compliant in most DVD players for me.
8. I don't think DVDit! offers any kind of "wizards" to make music dvd's vs. menu based dvd's etc. I have never like to use wizards anyway, they are much too restrictive if you are trying to be creative. SO, if there are any wizards, I am not aware of them.
9. trying to work in the DVDit! timeline will have you pulling your hair out in minutes! Trying to accurately place a chapter mark is damned near impossible short of typing in the timecode for each one.
10. Some of the functions in DVDit! can be quirky. Right click menus are not what you will expect them to be, deleting a file out of the project bin is done differently than deleting it from the project, etc. etc.
11. Made a mistake? Want to undo it? Can't undo in either dvdit! or Reel DVD (both sonic products) Maybe they think we don't make any mistakes at sonic, not sure what their reasoning is for this.

Impressions is a pretty good program and has an excellent interface (the best of all of the mid priced authoring solutions I think) There are certain things that Reel DVD will do that I wish Impressions could do, and vice versa. Far too many of them to list them all here. My biggest problem with impressions is that the resulting DVD's are plagued with playback problems. If they ever get that right, impressions would be my choice. Impressions will accept dolby digital AC3 up to 5.1, but it won't compress it for you. You have to bring it in from another program already compressed. Impressions however does support multiple angles and multiple audio tracks. I don't have much use for the angles, but I can think of several uses where the multiple audio would come in handy.

Reel DVD is probably my favorite overall at this time. My problem with it is that I DON'T OWN IT and it's pricey. I author DVD's for FedEx Pilot Training and they bought the software for me to use at my request (I brought the hardware dongle home a few times while I was learning the program, but it is a pain in the butt to do that). I may eventually break down and buy it myself but it is the most expensive of the bunch.

Hope some of this info helps. I really do have high hopes for the DVD-a thing. It's got a decent feature set, just needs some really basic tools for people who don't like automatic button creation and "wizards."

Oh, and why no elementary streams in DVD-a? Another VERY basic DVD standard. Just doesn't make any sense.

David Yopp
www.afteraction.com

ArysChien wrote on 3/12/2003, 1:22 AM

Wow, that is a very detailed comparison! Thanks a lot! I'll go see if there's a demo version for the softwares you mentioned. After all, image quality is everything to me. I don't mind pain taking editing process. I just want to see the beautiful photos and DV clips I took in Spain on my TV without any image quality degration, that's all I want.

scsinuts wrote on 3/12/2003, 9:06 AM

If that's what you are waiting for, personally I would wait for the patch. I'm sure it is going to fix the problem.

jetdv wrote on 3/12/2003, 10:12 AM

For DVDit! consider the following:
I'll agree that DVDA needs more navigation functionality (i.e. end actions, able to jump between ANY menu...)

2. AC3 (stereo only, professional edition only)compressor included
Advantage DVDA here. DVDit does not have motion backgrounds OR motion buttons.

4. poor to fair interface (impressions pro and Reel DVD have better gui's imho)
You're being kind. I would stick with POOR.

5. will not accept 5.1 (this is not a big deal for me, I haven't done anything to date that would require that many channels of audio.
Same here - never needed 5.1 but advantage DVDA

6. I think the DVDit! PE will cost you more than DVD-A
I KNOW it will. I believe the selling price is currently around $600 for PE.

7. resulting DVD's have been really compliant in most DVD players for me.
Although they have many of the same problems people are complaining about in DVDA such as the display not being properly updated on DVD players...

8. I don't think DVDit! offers any kind of "wizards" to make music dvd's vs. menu based dvd's etc. I have never like to use wizards anyway, they are much too restrictive if you are trying to be creative. SO, if there are any wizards, I am not aware of them.
I know of no wizards in DVDit

9. trying to work in the DVDit! timeline will have you pulling your hair out in minutes! Trying to accurately place a chapter mark is damned near impossible short of typing in the timecode for each one.
Once again, you're being kind. I considered it a MUST to find the chapter marks in the NLE and enter the timecodes manually in DVDit! PE. Also, playing the timeline on my machine only shows a few seconds of video - the audio will continue, though.

10. Some of the functions in DVDit! can be quirky. Right click menus are not what you will expect them to be, deleting a file out of the project bin is done differently than deleting it from the project, etc. etc.
Definitely quirky. Also, if you are not using the most current version, don't right-click a clip and choose delete - it deletes it from the project AND sets it's file size to ZERO forcing you to re-render your complete MPEG file.

DVDit is a real pain to use and has many problems. The "next" version has been promised for nearly a year. Looking at their forums you see many problems without the friendly aid of Sonic employees offering help. I used DVDit PE until DVDA was released. I've now switched to DVDA and hope some of the issues such as navigation will be dealt with in a future release.

ArysChien wrote on 3/12/2003, 11:06 AM

Alright...no DVDit then. No update for nearly a year when there are things to be fixed is terrible.

I bought DVDA without testing it, actually. That's because I've been using CD Architect to print my CDs (I'm a song writer), and thus I carried my faith in CD Architect into DVD Architect. It's like, to me, "* Architect from Sonic Foundry" means "very professional and reliable."

I really hope the patch will be released before I finish all my editing work.

ruipq wrote on 3/13/2003, 3:01 AM

1. The ability to set a "default" selected buton to be active on every menu. I would like to know how DVD'a decides this- does it pull a rabbit out of a hat on this one?

The lowest number is the selected button, very useful, just move it to the bottom on the EDIT menu. You can also change the order they appear on screen just by moving them up or down in the order and then reapply the theme. Useful when you change the chapters' menus.

11. THE ABILITY to use an outside image editing program (read:photoshop) to create menus and buttons. Pinnacle's impression pro definitely got that one right.)

I did a lot of arrows, backgrounds and titles on different programs. The buttons I included in my theme. The buttons and titles were PNGs. I usually use my photos for backgrounds after "blueing" them.