DVDA bug?

marcel-vossen wrote on 12/16/2014, 5:57 AM
Hi there,

I have a designed a wedding film Blueray that also should have a slideshow of appr. 350 pictures.

The first time I put all the pictures in one picture compilation, and I thought it would work like in the preview in the program, which is that the first appr. 75 pictures have a chapter number but the rest would still be available with play/ fast forward, like the help text also suggests. This is also the way it works in the preview inside DVDA.

After a whole day of rendering I tried the Blueray in my real player (LG) but it doesnt work correctly, all pictures above 75 are gone/black, so it seems only the first 75 will work.

I tried to fix this by working hours again to divide the pics into 5 seperate galleries on the disk, but to my frustration only the first compilation actually works on the final Blueray. The other 4 galleries are black again....

Is this a limitation of the Blueray format, did I do something wrong or is this just another bug in the software?

I also tried loading the project into DVDA 5.2, but that gives me the same result.

BTW I've already posted this in the DVDA forum but nobody reacted, so maybe more people will see it here...I kinda need to deliver this Blueray to my clients before christmas...
Same problem with my support ticket that has not been openened by any Sony employee since last week...

Thanks for the answer!

Marcel

Comments

Kimberly wrote on 12/16/2014, 8:14 AM
Hello.

Did you first render your media in Vegas in a compliant format for a BD in DVD-A? If you do that, you shouldn't (in theory) have long render times or problems in DVD-A.

I mention this because you said you rendered for hours in DVD-A. I do BDs that run about 35 minutes and my longest render in DVD-A is about 12 minutes. Of course the Vegas render time is longer and this is where I prepare the compliant file.

Regards,

Kimberly
marcel-vossen wrote on 12/16/2014, 12:49 PM
Hi Kimberly,

Thanks!

I used the output format Blueray 1920x1080 50i for PAL (MPEG2), but the problem is not with the video, its with the still pictures that I want to add as a picture compilation on the Blueray.
I also made the pictures 1920x1080 (or 1080x1920 for portrait pics)

I'm now testing a completely new project with ONLY the pictures to check if it all goes wrong in that situation too.



Jumping Rascal wrote on 12/16/2014, 5:30 PM
Hi...the Blu-ray picture compilation should accept up to 999 chapters. If placing the picture files directly into the project using DVDA, you would initially insert a picture compilation, double click the picture compilation properties in the project overview window, and then use the explorer window to select/move the picture files onto the picture compilation window. I find DVDA finicky as to exactly how compilations are set up. DVDA will have to recompress the project (as determined by looking at the file/optimization disc information). As mentioned in this topic, you can avoid recompressing in the first place by creating the video in vegas and rendering to a DVDA compliant format. I have also used software such as proshow to prepare a slide show and import the output file to Vegas where effects can be added and then rendered to a DVDA compliant file. Burning a rewritable BD to test it is good practice. All the best on this!
Kimberly wrote on 12/16/2014, 8:47 PM
Is there any merit to rendering your slideshow out of Vegas in a compliant format? Thus essentially making it a video but a slideshow in a video wrapper?
videoITguy wrote on 12/17/2014, 7:42 AM
Lets change and elaborate a definition for slide show for just a minute. If you are creating a slide sequence or montage with dissolve and other effects, then in fact you are creating a montage video. Do that in VegasPro and import the video stream to DVDApro for authoring.

If you are intent on delivering a series of still pictures perhaps with captions that should be sequenced by the client viewer upon play - then that is a slide show. You can build elaborate slide shows in DVDApro for output on Blu-ray highest quality by using menu pages as the authoring metaphor. You can build submenus, slide show content branching etc. Very flexible.
Kimberly wrote on 12/17/2014, 8:09 AM
Excellent clarification, VideoIT.

Dude, here are some tuts on DVD-A, including a couple good ones on menu structure:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/training/dvdarchitectpro
marcel-vossen wrote on 12/17/2014, 9:51 AM
Thanks a lot everyone!

If the compilation will not work for me, I can always make a videofile of the pictures in Vegas, thats true..

However I still don't see why the final output Blueray does not do what the preview in DVDA shows me. The 999 chapter limit is also only what it says in the help file, if I put in more than 255 pictures they don't have chapters.

Actually I made a completely new project in DVDA 6.0, did not put in any film, only tried to put the picture compilation in with 350 1920x1080 pictures, and a zoom/pan effect on them, nothing more, the results are disappointing again:

- The preview shows me 350 pictures, but only 255 chapters are there, the rest is only viewable with play and fast forwarding.

- In the timeline it also shows ONLY 255 orange chapters, the rest of the pics have green chapter points

- The rendered Blueray only shows 177 pictures, after 177 the screen turns black, dont ask me why....I give up

This software seems very buggy to me, at least the picture compilation feature is not working correctly.

Maybe someone can tell me what I can try to do differently?

videoITguy wrote on 12/17/2014, 11:04 AM
dude, i just told you above, and then again come to think of it, seems like you asked in another thread, and I told you the same.
Here:
Subject: DVD Architect 6.0 crashes with memory error
Posted by: The dude
Date: 10/27/2014 2:20:22 AM
marcel-vossen wrote on 12/18/2014, 7:37 AM
Hi VideoITguy,

I'm not sure what you mean really....why would I need to build submenus, slide show content branching etc. if even one simple test with 1 picture compilation of 350 pictures will not even work?

This sounds like trying to build a rocket engine with tools that can't even built a simple lawnmower

Maybe its just me but I like working with software that doesn't crash without any reason and doesnt have totally unexpected behavior if you just use the features that are available in the menus...

videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 8:22 AM
You skipped over it entirely because you don't understand the authoring metaphor.
Do research on the term menu pages.
johnmeyer wrote on 12/18/2014, 10:11 AM
I have not authored any Blu-Ray discs, but I have authored a LOT of DVDs (thousands), including many with both picture and music compilations.

It is possible that the problem you are having is something specific to Blu-Ray, but if you have the time, can you prepare a DVD from your project and see if the same problem happens? If so, if you can upload the DAR file from your project, I can take a look and see if I can find something unusual.

With DVDs, you can prepare 99 chapters in each title, and you can prepare 99 titles, and the navigation logic will work just fine. This is true both for regular chapters, but is also true for music and picture compilations. Once you go above this number, sometimes things work, and sometimes they don't. The behavior at that point depends on how each individual player handles the out of spec authoring. This is similar to the often-discussed issue of title navigation where some players allow the chapter advance remote control button to navigate to the next title when there are no more chapters in the current title, whereas other players simply ignore the chapter advance command and do nothing.

So, if you want to upload the DAR file, I'd be happy to take a look. You deserve more help that you are getting.

BTW, I usually use the "music compilation" for pictures. This many not be helpful or useful for your current project, but it is worth remembering. Here's a link to the thread where I first described the process. Scroll down to my user name:

Need to Transfer 1,000 slides to DVD

videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 12:18 PM
You really always have a choice. You can choose to do code bashing as johnmeyer suggests - or you can follow the correct authoring technique within the guidelines of what optical disc authoring is supposed to accomplish. The DVDAPro help file should be five times larger that it is, because it is a complex subject. Most people do not want to go there. If you look at the DVD spec, it is so voluminous, it really compares to a set of encyclopedias, so it is no wonder people lack the motivation or the know how to author correctly.

One note about the wording johnmeyer uses with the concept of title. The DVDAPro software is what is called auto -single title. In other words examine the title spec closely because DVDAPro can only create one title. This is very different from more advanced authoring software usually costing thousands of dollars that allow creation of more than one title on a single disc.
johnmeyer wrote on 12/18/2014, 1:03 PM
The DVDAPro software is what is called auto -single title. In other words examine the title spec closely because DVDAPro can only create one title. I'm probably missing something because DVDA can certainly create a multiple title disc: just drop multiple MPEG-2 files onto the main window, and each one becomes its own titleset.

But, like I said, I think perhaps you are talking about something related, but different.
videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 1:36 PM
No, those are not titles in the disc nomenclature - they are just multiple media assets forming your disc group into a title. Sorry - read the spec again to understand what you are speaking of.
DVDLabPro by Media Chance can produce multiple titles on a single disc for DVD only - DVDAPro does not give you the interface to accomplish the same in either DVD or Blu-ray.
johnmeyer wrote on 12/18/2014, 3:30 PM
Actually, I do understand the PGC structure. This Microsoft document, designed for those of us who program, does a great job describing the basics:

DVD Basics

Scroll down a little to the heading "Titles and Chapters." What they describe is exactly what I have described and is precisely how I have always understood the DVD structure.
videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 3:59 PM
John, part of the problem with your citation is that it is an English interpretation and wide-ranging one at that. Yes, it does make good points, but it is totally mis-leading on understanding the structure of a DVD authoring system. Consider it a nice layman's guide that is going to at one point or another get you into a whole lot of trouble.

Read the MediaChance documentation for a lot more clarity on the term DVD title. This is more closely held technical translation of the original Japanese document, but note it also slips occassionally into English colloquialisms.

Here's the deal - authoring software falls into three broad categories...
1) Auto single title - like DVDAPro - no interface to do otherwise. Most inexpensive authoring exists in this way.
2) Give you an interface to do more - DVDLabPro for DVD only
3) Give even more control of interface options - scenarist or Sony Blu-print for Blu-ray
johnmeyer wrote on 12/18/2014, 4:16 PM
I just looked at the spec, and then I looked at a VIDEO_TS folder prepared by DVD Architect. I found the following:

VTS_01_x.VOB = Title 1
VTS_02_x.VOB = Title 2
VTS_03_x.VOB = Title 3

So, DVD Architect most definitely creates multiple titles, because the definition of a title is a VTS file. ("VTS" stands for V. You can have up to 99 of these per disc. I don't think there is any issue with translations from Japanese or anything else. I still don't understand what you are trying to say or what point you are trying to make. The clear fact is that DVD Architect does produce DVDs which contain multiple titles.

As for the other authoring tools, they do indeed give you access to all sorts of interesting navigation tweaks that DVD Architect does not control directly. There is most definitely a lot of authoring depth not available with the Sony product.

For those not wanting to spend the $$$ for Scenarist, you can access many of these tweaks by using PGCEdit, after you have created the DVD structure on your hard drive. It used to be freeware, but I think you have to pay $15 for unlimited access.
videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 4:47 PM
Still very far off track, thought you knew better. Vobs are nothing but splits in the video file structure since a given vob can only hold so much content. Has nothing to do with a Video title set. Perhaps the translation as you are writing it is really baffling your thinking. DVDAPro can create one video title set consisting of many vobs... A true spec app lets you create 99 titles per disc with 99 chapters each with many vobs total.

Again the vob is a content split - all of the vobs that exist on your DVD have to belong to one video title set when you create with the given interface of DVDAPro. When you author with many titles on a disc, vobs belong to one title set or the other, not possibly both, or overlap two or more title sets or anything combination thereof. Title sets are distinctly walled units of the authoring process. A DVDAPro authored disc has one wall set you can not get outside of until you doctor with tool like PGCedit.
johnmeyer wrote on 12/18/2014, 7:32 PM
Still very far off track, thought you knew better.I do know better.

You have provided no links to any authoritative source (actually any source, authoritative or otherwise), whereas I have. You acknowledge nothing that I have said, other than to make derogatory remarks about my ability to read or comprehend. That isn't very nice.

What's more, I still have no idea what you are trying to say, or what your point is. The simple fact is that DVD Architect DOES produce multi-title discs, and these can be navigated using the Title Advance button on the DVD player's remote control which, on my players, is a separate and distinct button from the chapter buttons.

If anyone reading this exchange would like to read a simple overview of the subject here is a link:

DVD Video Spec Overview

Here is the section which describes the file structure, including the video titleset structure that is the subject of this increasingly pointless exchange:

Directory and File Structure

Since it is pretty clear that I am being played, I am not going to read or post any further.

videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 7:49 PM
VTS_01_1.VOB file: Video Title Set 01, Video Object 1, contains the video for this title. At least one file "VTS_zz_1.VOB" is required in the VTS and each "VTS_zz_x". DVD-Video can contain up to 99 (1–99) titles with max 10 (0–9) VOB files each. The last possible VOB file is VTS_99_9.VOB.

Question: how do you create title set 2 in DVDAPro? In the interface - do you press a button, provide an action, set a destination? How do you do create it? How do you manage it?
Can I just add a media asset like a video file that I have edited and then desiginate it to be located in video title set 2? instead of in video title set 1?
OldSmoke wrote on 12/18/2014, 8:01 PM
@videoITguy

Hmmm... I don't get it either... are you saying VTS_02_1.VOB would be title set 2?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

VidMus wrote on 12/18/2014, 8:09 PM
@ videoITguy

If I understand what you are trying to say, it would be like having two or more completely separate physical DVD's on one disk. Each one being a separate title. Right?

And as there is a distinct barrier between two or more completely separate physical DVD's, there is also a distinct barrier between them on the same disk. With separate titles each. Right?

So with the ability to have SEEMINGLY separate titles via VOB's or whatever it is then what is the point? Why would one want that barrier other than to possibly allow for a whole lot more chapters?

Note: The way I do DVD's, it would not matter and I could never afford the expensive software to do it anyway but it is nice to hopefully learn and understand something.

videoITguy wrote on 12/18/2014, 8:23 PM
VidMus - you are correct in assuming that the full DVD spec does allow the creation of multiple chapters per title. In practice most authors that are advanced do not use more than a few available chapters per each title. For example the main movie will have 24 chapters over a 90 minute run movie. The movie extras on the same disc in video title two might have 6 chapters. Of course you could run to 99 chapters but that is not the point being made - except that is exactly what DVDAPro - can do is to create 99 chapters in a single title. Hence you just can't wall off the structure in DVDAPro.

here is a sample of the directory structure of a disc showing the .vob content breaks made by adding a whole lot of different media assets with multiple chapters in them.
Video_TS.VOB
VTS_01.0.VOB
VTS_01.1.VOB
VTS_02.1.VOB
VTS_03.1.VOB

I did not create these structures from the interface - they show up in the final disc directory due to the limitations of .vob sizing the content. That is very different from actually being able to designate how assets can go to different titles.
OldSmoke wrote on 12/18/2014, 8:32 PM
I am still very much in the blur.

So what the file structure in this image then mean and how would one with more titles look like and how would one access those "separate disks"?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)