Elastique--very cool!

riredale wrote on 6/5/2012, 12:03 AM
For many years I have done video and audio projects on Vegas7. It has served me very well, with lots of power AND ruggedness.

About two months ago I recorded the Durufle Requiem for a Good Friday service. Great piece, lots of emotion and creativity. The chorus was comprised of about 30 women and 10 men from the local community (and non-audition), and the male voices left something to be desired, BUT we did record it with an instrumental ensemble of violins, viola, double bass, harp, horns, and timpani.

The director wasn't very happy with the results, and she decided to perform it again two months later (yesterday)--this time in a different church with an excellent pipe organ--but no instruments.

So last night I listened to the two versions and liked various aspects of each. I put both on the timeline and using the first version as the master, cut and stretched the second performance to sync. I've used Time Stretch many times in the past, but the "Classic" mode on V7 was usually of limited use, since compressing +/- 10% would result in pops and clicks. So tonight I installed V8. Same issue. But in V9, one has the option of selecting Elastique, a much-improved process.

Wow! The sound is pure, even at large values of stretch or compression.

So here's a rough idea of what the new synthetic double-sized choir (80 voices!) sounds like. The timpani, horns, and strings are from the first performance and the pipe organ from the second two months later. This is the Sanctus. Nice crescendo about two-thirds of the way through.

Comments

vtxrocketeer wrote on 6/5/2012, 7:03 AM
Very nice, riredale! Has the director heard the 'virtual' choir yet?

OT: what did you use to record both performances?
farss wrote on 6/5/2012, 7:14 AM
I quite liked it however there's some sibilance (or something that sounds like it) getting into the vocals. I don't know how it got into the recording bit it really stands out for me.

Bob.
riredale wrote on 6/5/2012, 5:19 PM
Director likes her "doubled" choir, guess I will go through it again and clean it up a bit.

Don't know where the high emphasis might have come from. The tracks were run through the Magnus Ambience VST plugin to provide concert-hall acoustics. There's also a bit of compression. Pickup was with a single-point microphone, the Audio-Technica AT822, recorded at 16-bit/44.1. And, of course, what you heard was mp3 compressed at 128kbps.

Here's another doubled-up segment of the entire Requiem, this time the Pie Jesu. This is just a group of middle-aged women from the local area, some of whom sing in church choirs on Sundays.
farss wrote on 6/6/2012, 6:06 AM
"Don't know where the high emphasis might have come from."

The Pie Jesu piece has it as well. I just went back and listened to a similar recording of my own. Different music, different mic (Rode NT4), different post. It's there as well.
Not as obvious as there's a bigger orchestra plus I think my mic was closer. So it must come from the vocalists, maybe different acoustics / mics / placements accenuates it. Odd thing is though to my ears the instruments always sound a bit dull, I prefer to hear the bow on the strings and a little edge on the brass etc and you seem to lose that with the ambient mics.

Bob.

riredale wrote on 6/6/2012, 9:44 AM
It's simple to just throw up a single stereo microphone or a pair of matched cardioids. I've often thought, however, that it would be very nice to have much more control of the overall mix by recording individual elements (organ, instruments, choral sections) separately and then doing the final mix later. On a recording of a stage musical several years ago I had chorus, actors, orchestra, and ambient all separately recorded, and it was wonderful to mix. And, of course, that's how the big boys with matching budgets do it. There's a reason for mixing consoles with dozens of sliders.

As for this project, what's done is done, and I've had a lot of fun superimposing the two separate performances. But lots of splitting and time adjustments with Elastique--typically every 10 seconds or so. The final effect is very interesting. I can remember a popular conductor named Mantovani decades ago who had a certain "waterfall" technique with his string section that was almost hypnotic. I get a bit of that with this mix. I don't know if it's the doubled-up voices or the slight asynchronicity (pretty good word, eh?); in any event, Elastique is a remarkable tool. If only we had something as good for the video side.
Guy S. wrote on 6/6/2012, 12:22 PM
The sibilance was noticeable since I was looking for it, but the bottom line is that I enjoyed listening to it and I'm sure your work was very well received.

What you managed to achieve was rather remarkable and I do have to agree that the overall effect was rather hypnotic - though I'm sure I'll awake feeling refreshed.
farss wrote on 6/6/2012, 5:16 PM
"And, of course, that's how the big boys with matching budgets do it. There's a reason for mixing consoles with dozens of sliders."

There is somebody who posts here from time to time who does that for a living.
I've heard his work in the cinema, indeed, throw enough money at it and massive orchestral / choral works can sound breath taking but that's another world that uses up $100 bills by the second. One thing I get reminded of many times by one of my clients; "Don't look too professional or the muscians will want union rates" :)

Back in our world I think luck plays a big part in the outcome. I put my XY mic in the best place that I can and oftenly the choice is restricted by practical limits. Sometimes I get magic, sometimes mush. One time I got magic from just the CS-1 shotgun on the camera.

Bob.
riredale wrote on 6/7/2012, 11:22 AM
Two comments about the joke about musicians wanting union rates based on the equipment:

When I was on tour with the Oregon Children's Choir in France in 2006, I had my then-new FX-1 HDV camcorder, all decked out with dual stereo mics on the top and a compact Minidisc recorder mounted on the back (recording the rear audio). On top of all that, the camera had the big, beautiful .8x Sony HG wide-angle zoom-through lens on the front.

On the day we visited the Louvre, the authorities refused to let me in, even though I pleaded that I was only there to document the children's choir tour. Went as high as the boss, who said I had to provide proof of employment by one of the majors, plus pay a fee, of course.

The other time was early in my video editing career. I had a little Sony miniDV camera and my buddy had a Sony D8 camcorder. Together we recorded a terrific concert by an adult choir, the Oregon Children's Choir, and some professional musicians, who looked at our gear and said, "Sure." The results turned out great, though image quality was definitely early-DV. This was back in 2002. Some years later I was given a copy of the professionally-recorded CD an did a remix (not for sale, of course) where I used the near-field recording for the front two channels and my camera's audio for the rear surround. The results were remarkable.

The performance was of Honegger's "Cantate de Noel," a great Christmas piece that starts out dark and sinister (representing mankind before the Nativity) and then in the last 1/3 turns into a rousing enthusiastic celebration (representing the world after the birth). I've put it up on YouTube; the last 1/3 is . I think it looks pretty decent, given we had just two consumer camcorders. After a while I tend to ignore the image quality and just get into the performance.

I especially enjoy seeing the trumpet player's eyes near the end of the performance, glancing quickly back and forth between his music and the conductor.