embedded markers and toshiba hd-a3

jmelan wrote on 1/2/2008, 7:58 AM

Vegas8.0a pro (build 179) , DVDA pro 4.5a

any video i create in vegas with the DVDA mainconcept encoder (24p widescreen template) containing embedded markers for chapters causes problems after authoring in DVDA, played back with my toshiba hd-a3 player (no problems in preview, powerDVD play of .iso)

The behavior is as follows:
DVD counter stops at the location of some but not all embedded markers, followed by video freeze 5 secs later and return to beginning of the chapter. If the chapter point is removed (but not the embedded marker) in DVDA, the counter stops, video freezes after 5 secs and you have to press stop to unfreeze.

the same video encoded with the exact same settings minus embedded markers has no trouble playing, with the same chapter locations inserted via the original sfl file (video was renamed to match).

however, without embedded markers, it seems vegas cannot create I frames at the correct locations, so the chapters had to be moved to the nearest I frame

any ideas here, or is it possible the embedded markers create noncompliant mpeg2 for DVD? i found a script to export markers to an sfl, is this my best option?

in addition, my ancient pioneer DV-525 DVD player, which is famous for playing just about anything mpeg (noncompliant as well) you throw at it, has no problems with the same DVD

Comments

MPM wrote on 1/2/2008, 10:35 AM

FWIW there is really no such thing as an embedded marker or chapter as far as mpg2 video is concerned... If you set markers in Vegas, and if you elect to save the markers when rendering the file, you'll notice a separate file that's saved along with the mpg file, used by DVDA to place chapters. If you save chapters in DVDA they become a part of the project file. The mpg2 itself can be used anywhere you'd use an mpg2 file, in DVDA or Muxman or wherever, but only DVDA has the ability to read that extra file and place chapters accordingly. When you create a DVD layout the times where you placed chapters are used to create cells & chapters, mainly in the IFO files, while the mpg2 itself remains unaltered. They're just reference points, markers telling the player where to go physically on the disc.

Now Vegas can create an I frame wherever you place a chapter marker prior to encoding. The alternatives are to adjust each marker in DVDA so that it lands on an I frame, or just let DVDA choose the closest I frame automatically when creating the DVD layout. I frames can be placed at different intervals throughout an mpg2 file, though Vegas/DVDA stick with 15 by default. Causing Vegas to insert extra I frames [selecting create I frames at markers in the custom encoder dialog] might for some reason upset your Toshiba player [a brand I coincidentally own and am under-impressed with]. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the file itself, or that the file is non-compliant re: DVD specs.

If you wanted to avoid the problem I'd suggest trying to place markers in Vegas without setting I frames.

If you wanted to check DVDA's writing of the DVD layout, demux the mpg file to give you m2v, then add it, the audio (ac3), and a text file listing chapter times to the free version of Muxman, and burn the result to disc [+RW?] to try in your players.

If you wanted to make sure the file was in spec, you might demux it and try running it through ProjectX.

If you want to doublecheck media compatibility buy (a small pack?) of Verbatim, burn using ImgBurn at 8x, & try that.

ProjectX, ImgBurn, & Muxman are written to pay close attention to specs, even relatively minor points that are normally ignored by the big companies -- get them at videohelp.com

jmelan wrote on 1/2/2008, 3:21 PM

thanks for the response!!!

i guess the HD-A3 is just choking on the I-frames being a little out of sync.

i had checked the quality of the burn with nero cd-dvd speed, so I knew i was ok with that. I was using the ISO file + Nero to burn the DVDs

now if vegas and DVDA will just add support for 3xDVD i would be set

ggrussell wrote on 1/2/2008, 4:34 PM

First time I had heard of 3X DVD. Great idea, too. There are several inexpensive MPEG 4, 720p camcorders on the market. Combine that with 3X DVD authoring and a cheap HD DVD player could get more users into Hidef.

MPM wrote on 1/3/2008, 8:12 AM

Interesting times ahead for HD I think...

We've entered the 1 year countdown in the US for mandatory DVB to go into effect, and it seems there's a huge number of issues still up in the air. Personally I expect 720 to become a LOT more acceptable, considering the majority of HD TVs in the home will probably be 720 once things get rolling. Add to that the majority of broadcasts over cable/sat will probably not be 1080, & 720 will be what folks are used to. You've also got the home recording market -- right now you can't record something like HBO in 1080 (you're restricted to a down-sampled but very nice 480 i); if things stay that way I'd expect a lot of up-sampled 720 discs. And then a lot of people will get or have gotten their intro to HD via their PCs, and 720 has much lower hardware costs, from monitors to CPUs. Finally, if things go as they have in the past, player chipsets out of China will be designed for the world market, which I'd expect would include 3X DVD if the tools become available and are cheaper than regular HD DVDs &/or BluRay.

But that's totally for what-it's-worth of course -- just personal opinion at the moment and all that... ;-) As far as software goes, anybody's guess is as good as mine.