Encode DVD for BOTH 16x9 and 4:3 TVs?

BrownCow wrote on 12/19/2005, 4:20 PM
I've had Vegas Movie Studio+DVD for two days now, and I've spent half that time reading this forum. (Thanks!) Yet, I am still not sure if it is possible to create an anamorphic widescreen DVD that displays properly on both 16x9 and 4x3 televisions.

I can crop 4:3 footage so it displays in widescreen on a 4:3 television (with the help of black bars). I can also crop 4:3 footage so the output fills the screen of my widescreen TV.

What I CAN NOT figure out is how to get the stars to align so the output does BOTH of the above! For example, when the 4:3 cropped to 16:9 footage displays properly on my widescreen TV, I can put that same disc into a 4:3 TV and it takes up the full screen (no letterboxing) making everything tall and thin.

Is this possible, or do I have to author a DVD with two widescreen versions and let the user pick if they have a 4:3 display or a 16:9 display?

Here are my steps to produce 16x9 video (derived from 4:3) that properly displays on a widescreen TV, but does not have the necessary letterboxing on a 4:3 tv:

1. Open Vegas
2. Set project to widescreen.
3. Import 4:3 footage
4. Drag footage to timeline and verify it is recognized as 4:3
5. Click on crop/frame
6. Choose "widescreen" framing
7. "maintain aspect ratio" to NO
8. "Stretch to frame" to YES
9. Verify altered framing in preview window
10. Click on "Make Movie" ("Stretch" is still checked.)
11. After it is finished, click on "Open In Sony Architect"
12. In Sony Architect, change disc properties to "widescreen"
13. Click on "make disc" to burn disc.

I'll end by saying that I totally understand aspect ratio concepts and know for sure that my DVD players are properly configured for their respective displays.

Help me put this issue to rest!

Thanks,

BrownCow

Comments

filmy wrote on 12/19/2005, 4:30 PM
I am almost 100% sure this was answered in another thread - not sure if it wa you who asked the question that was answered or not.

>>> I can put that same disc into a 4:3 TV and it takes up the full screen (no letterboxing) making everything tall and thin<<<

Make sure your DVD player is set for 4:3 output.

To expand on this - most all DVD players have a set up that allows you to set the aspect ratio of the set you are viewing it on. If you have it set for 4:3 and you pop in a widescreen/16:9/anamorphic/'enhanced for widescreen tv's' DVD it will show up on your 4:3 TV/monitor as 'tall and thin'.
BrownCow wrote on 12/19/2005, 4:46 PM
++++++++++I am almost 100% sure this was answered in another thread - not sure if it wa you who asked the question that was answered or not.+++++++

The post above is my first. I've spent hours reading through threads and experimenting and haven't found a clear and straightforward answer. Surely it can be summed up in 5-10 steps?

+++++++++Make sure your DVD player is set for 4:3 output.+++++++++

I said at the end of my post above that I've already verified the settings on my DVD players.

I"ve had a widescreen TV for over 2 years, have extensive home theater knowledge, and have done non-linear AUDIO editing for over 10 years. I'm just new to this video production, and this is frustrating!

Thanks,
BrownCow
filmy wrote on 12/19/2005, 5:11 PM
Easy steps that have worked for me -

Generic steps for any aspect ratio
1> make sure all media is the correct aspect ratio for final output.
2> render out using one of the templates...if you are also using DVDA than use the DVDA template...that matches aspect ratio of the project.
3> Bring into DVD authoring program, make sure the project settings match your video settings. (Note: Some programs need you to mnually set things like menus to the correct AR)
4> Burn (I use Nero)

That is it. really it is. If it does not work I would check your DVD player settings. I had a Samsung 715 DVD player that would change settings for whatever reason. I had to check it every time I played a DVD.

Have you tried your 16:9 DVD in other DVD players? Does it produce the same results each time?

If you have PowerDVD load up your file and play it and check it - it should say something like:

4:3
Video Attributes:
Video compression mode: MPEG-2
TV system: 525/60 (NTSC)
Aspect Ratio: 4:3

16:9
Video Attributes:
Video compression mode: MPEG-2
TV system: 525/60 (NTSC)
Aspect Ratio: 16:9

Or if you have Media Player Classic just open the VOB file and click on properties. That will also tell you what the AR is. In the details area you will see somehting like:

Video: MPEG2 Video 720x480 (16:9) 29.97fps 8000Kbps [Video]

If it says 4:3 and it is really 16:9 you are doing something wrong in the encode.
BrownCow wrote on 12/19/2005, 7:13 PM
I know I have to change the overall properites of the project to widescreen, but do I also have to change the pixel aspect ratio of the cropped 4:3 video events from standard NTSC to widescreen? (Right click on video event, "properties", "Media", "pixel AR", change to "widescreen"?)

Also, I have the other settings as "stretch - yes" and 'maintain AR - no"

Thank you for your great replies!!!!!

BrownCow
BrownCow wrote on 12/19/2005, 8:35 PM
I played the file output by Sony Architect in Media Player Classic, and the framing and aspect ratio look right, but the properties say 4:3.

The properties for the DVD VOB menu created by Architect says 16:9.

I keep trying different settings and can't get the video file properties to say 16:9 in media player classic.
xjerx wrote on 12/19/2005, 10:34 PM
I have a similar question...

I saw this done on a "hollywood" DVD "The Interpreter".

I put the DVD in on my 16:9 TV and the menu filled the frame beautifully with moving videos etc. However, when I put it into a 4:3 TV... the image also filled the frame beautifully...no thin image...it looked correct...and the menu didn't have moving video on the 4:3...just a still image. Besides the menu changing from moving video to non moving video...it seemed as if the 4:3 version just took the 16:9 version and cropped out what it needed from the middle of the image. Make sense?

Does this mean that the DVD player recognized the output and picked from different menu settings that are on the DVD? If so, can DVDA do that?

Jeremiah
BrownCow wrote on 12/20/2005, 4:32 AM
I have it figured out. When I use the "make movie" wizard in Vegas it outputs in mpg and wav and doesn't render change the properties of the footage to 16:9. If I put the mpg file into classic media player it says "4:3" in the properties.

HOWEVER, using the exact same steps, if I don't use the wizard and instead render out manually (using the "File"-->"Render as") into .AVI format and the widescreen template the footage properties are converted to 16:9.

BrownCow
viewfinder wrote on 12/20/2005, 6:46 AM
I don't know if this is the answer to your question but I had trouble producing 16:9 DVD from Vegas and this forum pointed me to DVDPatcher (google will find it). To get AR right I render as normal for 16:9 (I select strech to fill). Use DVDPatcher to patch the 4:3 flag to 16:9 before using DVDA to set the 19:9 flags in the file.

Points to note: DVDPatcher defaults to some strange settings so check all parameters before patching. Also select entire file or only first occurance is converted.

Hope this helps.
BrownCow wrote on 12/20/2005, 8:25 AM
Thanks for the tip. I found that the aspect ratio flag (from 4:3 to 16:9) is set properly if I go to "file ---"render as" and select a widescreen template.

It is NOT set properly if I use the "Make Movie" wizard.
filmy wrote on 12/20/2005, 7:50 PM
>>>...(using the "File"-->"Render as") into .AVI...<<<

Maybe I missed something along the way - in Vegas you should render to Mpg via one of the templates. So, for example, you would select File > Render As > Save As Type = MainConcept MPEG-2 / Template = DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen Video Stream

It is important to note here that this will render video stream only. You need to do audio in another render.