John,
Thanks for the pointer!
I downloaded the dvdlab beta (1.0.0512)
playing with it now...
I hear ya on the licensing fees, I have
yet to render media in a DVD authoring
package.

"All SoFo needs is an additional flowchart screen. Start with this file, then go here,
then go to this menu. "

This is not a trivial job to do right, especially the UI, but I can assure you it is at the top of the list for the planned next major release of DVDA. Do not expect this to magically show up in an update.

For those who have used many apps: What is the best implementation of end actions/navigation you have seen/used? I've personally tried this in quite a few apps and haven't been really happy with anything I've seen. (Mtropolis- I liked that! RIP)

Also: I have seen this or that feature implemented in certain apps in a way I really like, but in that same app then I'll see some other gaping hole...like bad/no encoding, no motion menus, bad handling of no-recompress, instability, is 100% perfect on paper but hasn't shipped etc.

Anyway we have been listening closely to your feedback and have a very aggressive list of items for the planned next version. Please do not ask when, what, how much.

I understand this is not something that is going to show up in an update...

Regardless of other apps, lack of end actions is one of DVD-A gaping holes.

I have but one question as for DVD-A 2.0: when, what, and how much?

Yes, I think some sort of "End Actions" needs to be implemented in the next "major" release of DVD-A. However, saying that, I do like what DVD-A offers as far as multiple title sets, nice implementation of markers to chapter points, ability to edit start and end points, ability to allow individual chapters to start and then go back to the menu without having to continue to finish out the DVD - pretty cool!

Also, I must say I agree with SonicEPM, at this point there really is NO affordable authoring app that doesn’t have some sort of easily complainable hole in it.

Better luck next time!

As I originally said, I do use DVD-A with success, I like many of the features,
I like the GUI look and feel. I still won't go back to Ulead's product.

I am still tyring this DVD-lab beta, but honestly don't have time to be beta
testing a new app rat now, gotta get the product out the door.

I am just going to protest LOUDLY about lack of 'end actions" until it is
part of DVD-A.

I don't need luck, I need seemless software that accomplishes what I conjure,
and I don't need it next time, I need it today before close of business :-)

DVD-Lab is interesting indeed! Can't find the link to the beta though, any help?

Try:

http://www.mmbforums.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi
and scroll down to the DVDLab forum. The beta is good for 30 days, but you'll need to download the full beta (about 40mb). The smaller files are just updates.

SonicEPM,

I have DVD Workshop and the beta of DVD Lab, and I always head to DVDA for creating my DVDs. The UI and simplicity are what attracts me, and I can turn out a great looking interface in a few minutes. The inability to not easily return to the submenus is a pain, but I am not particularly put out by this. . .yet.

Couldn't the UI for End Actions be as simple as just another tab on the right to configure the action for each object? Perhaps an optional flowchart-type display so you can graphically see what you've put together? It would seem to me that you want the option to set things up textually and get a quick overview graphically. Just an idea. . .

If you don't want the tab, maybe you could have a clickable link on each object that would open up an "End Actions" window. This would be similar to how effects are handled in Vegas.

Sonic DVD Producer strikes an excellent balance between power and ease of use, IMHO.

Unfortunately, it costs some real money, otherwise it would be a no brainer to skip DVDA and use DVDP instead.

jofte

DVDP still only has access to one title set though (not very DVD professional acting) IMHO...

Maybe it could be worked out as DVD Workshop does: if you right click on a thumbnail, a menu pops up and gives you two choices for "After play": next title or last menu, simple as that.
That would be an improvement and you don't need a flowcharting screen.
My $0.02

IMO DVD Lab really is a good application (even though it is still in beta). It can handle very complicated menu designs with ease and offers a lot of things I'd like to see in DVD A.
Following the subject of this topic: we need End Actions as quick as possible!

BTW For DVD Lab you don't have to download the full beta as mentioned earlier. The smaller update files contain everything except additional menu backgrounds/buttons/samples.

I started with Spruce Virtuoso. (RIP) But I still use it.
I had Reel DVD for awhile but I hated the workflow
so I sold it. I can make .m2v & .ac3 files with VV4
(even 24P) that work fine with Spruce.
Spruce had it down and I was looking forward for the
next update until Apple killed it. I here the DVDSP is
the old Spruce Masetro. At $500 it almost makes sense
to get a MAC to use it. BUT I will wait for Adobe Encore
and or DVD-A 2.0.

The biggest limitation of DVD-A is the lack on manual
controls. It would be great to set a chapter point and say
when the player gets to the end of this title I want it to go here.

Plus I need to be able to have a menu. Click to play a segment
and then when it is done it goes back to the same menu but highlights
the next selection. I have quit playing with DVD-A as it is so limiting.

I'm probably going to order DVDA next week because I loved the beta, but the first thing I noticed, of course, was lack of end actions. However, now I will be to encode AC3 and thus put more on one disc. Also, the ease of creating first-play, motion menus, slide-shows was "simplee mahvulous." This is the first inexpensive app I've seen that makes it darn easy to create a really impressive Hollywood-like DVD.

Another thing I love is the ability bring many and sundrous files into DVDA, create the DVD and have it all work out. I read somewhere on the Sofo Vegas forum that having DVDA encode the avi files actually results in better mpg than doing it in Vegas. So, you create the DVD, let DVDA encode it all in the background while you start work on your next Video project. Cool.

Secondly, we who have used Sofo products for a while know that they always give away much more than they charge -- best bang for the buck, bar none. So, after plunking down the $300 for the DVDA upgrade, maybe I'll have to plunk down another $150 6 months from now for version 2. But I know it will be well worth it.

P.S. Lack of end-actions limits me a little, but in my case I can live without them for now.

I've only used DVD it! PE because of End Actions. I still use it today, but would get rid ot it if DVD-A had that feature.

Ron

Wow! A lot of discussion about what many think is a simple fix for an oversight, but which is much more difficult than adding a line of code or a "right-click" menu option.

After entering DVD publishing as a profession last year, I've noticed three distinct user communities;

Consumers, who for the most part are trying to figure out how to use DVD copy programs to burn the latest title from Blockbuster.

Prosumers (I hate that word), mostly folks who enjoy videography as a hobby and many in the small business community. There are even some larger companies in here. They focus primarily on video post, video capture, events, etc. They are extremely conversant about video and are learning DVD from the software products available and user discussion groups.

Professionals, folks who stake their livelihood on the creation of DVD-Video and DVD-ROM. Typically this group is extremely familiar with all aspects of the DVD-Video specifications and most if not all of the disciplines involved in DVD-Video. They do not create content other than the unique elements included in the DVD's they create. They may work for companies that produce content, but they are specialists in that environment. The studios have spun off their DVD production into wholly owned companies that specialize in DVD authoring and production. They know Ralph LaBarge.

This board is a good example of the middle group. That's not to say that most are not competent and skilled videographers. DVD is different. Many of the questions I see asked repeatedly indicate to me that most have just begun their journey on the learning curve. Here's what I mean;

End Command, sending viewers to specific tracks, button actions, etc., all of the capabilities you find in commercial titles are available within the DVD-Video specifications. The issue is that the available software limits access to the steps necessary to create a title that utilizes this capability fully. Actually, it's not an easy task.

What many are asking about are known as pre and post commands that can be issued and executed in the transition between every element in the DVD title or triggered as a timed event. The limited programmability of a DVD player allows for condition-specific actions to be programmed into each element of a DVD title. It is the combination of these elements that allow for the full exploitation of the DVD-Video specifications and to date only one company has released a software package that will do all of these things in the PC environment; Sonic Solutions’ Scenarist (really from Daikin). This gives rise to all sorts of issues as it relates to the movie business and their willingness for the software that creates a major portion of their revenue to be available to anyone with a DVD burner.

Until someone develops a program that does not rely on Sonic's code in any way that fully exploits the DVD-Video specifications, you will still only have limited access.

This space is so small that everyone is watching everyone. If DVDlab works (I've found it to be too unstable at present) I would expect that he will be offered a lot of money and the software will also disappear.

Remember, even though you want to be like Hollywood, they don't want you to be like them. Just ask 321 Studios.

In the end we are all at the mercy of the software companies and their motives and ability to create a robust authoring package for the middle market professional. Let's hope the next new entrant, Adobe, does a better job, although the multiplexing core of Encore DVD belongs to Sonic.

All I have to add is that I hope the upgrade to DVDA 2.0 is VERY cheap. After all, us DVDA 1.x owners have paid a lot for it and "suffered" through its shortcomings. Personally, I feel like it is a public beta that I paid a lot for. Having said that, I do like it, but I feel that I paid a "pro" product price for a not-quite-pro app.

Just my two cents.

SonicEPM,

> For those who have used many apps: What is the best implementation of end actions/navigation you have seen/used?

I agree with cacher. While the ultimate flowchart tool may be nice, I think the simple elegance that ULead DVD Moviefactory 2 ($45) uses is easy enough to offer in an update and shut us up. ;-) They have a single dropdown box on the movie properties dialog which says: After Playback: 1. Continue to play the next clip 2. Back to menu. That’s really all I need. That would solve xactoz’s and John Cline’s problem too from what they’ve posted.

Since it is easy to add a dropdown menu and also easy to code returning to the menu (which it already does, no code needed) or continue to next clip (which people do already by hacking the IFO file) this sounds like a day of coding and another day of unit testing. This is all that I need and it will at least hold others over until V2. (unless V2 is coming real soon).

Here is my real concern. I’m a hobbyist. (I guess I’m what radcamdvd classifies as a Prosumer) If V2 adds subtitles, and muti-lingual audio tracks, and multiple camera angles and all the things I’m never gonna need for my home videos, its gonna drive the price way up. Then I’ll have to pay 100’s of dollars just to get return to menu or continue to next clip. NOT! I can’t justify that cost to get such a basic function.

I think the simple dropdown menu idea that DVD MF2 uses could be added as an update. Then let the full blow flow chart be an upgrade to V2. Just my $0.02.

~jr

radcamdvd,

Oh, you put that well!

There is no way in hell that we are going to get the features we want in one authoring program. We can complain all we want and threaten to go to some other cheap "lame" software to get what were looking for, but it ain't gonna happen.

Just the inclusion of multiple title sets places DVDA (in some ways) higher than ReelDVD, Sonic Producer, and even their $15K authoring package. Price usually means stability in this level of authoring app, and as you stated, Hollywood will never let their golden goose loose. We will pay all we want thinking were gonna get something special, but in the end the most we can probably expect is something limited that "hopefully" works.

It seems to me tha the most needed solution to this problem is to go one of two ways; either have two versions offering one basic product and one high end product (maybe very costly) or a basic version with add ons that are priced accordingly. Just a thought, I haven't a clue on the cost of doing these, but it would give the product a much wider group of potential puchasers.

JohnnyRoy,

Well, technically, DVD Moviefactory won't solve my problem completely. I have two clips: the main program and a second file, which is 20 seconds of black. What I need to do is play the first clip then go directly to the second clip and play the second clip in a continuous loop. DVD Movie Factory will go directly to the second clip, but won't play it in a loop.

In the reasonably priced DVD authoring software arena, DVDit PE and DVDlab will both do what I need done. However, none of Ulead's offerings nor DVD Architect currently will.

John

> DVD Movie Factory will go directly to the second clip, but won't play it in a loop

Yes, DVD MovieFactory 2 will play them in a loop! If you check the box that’s labeled Auto repeat when playback ends it will play each clip in sequence and return to the first clip at the end so all your clips repeat over and over. This is just above the After playback option and it grays After playback out if you check auto repeat because it implies continue to next clip. DVD MovieFactory 2 is pretty beefy app for just $45. That’s why I’m so upset that I have to pay to upgrade DVDA just to get a clip to continue to the next one or return to the menu. Authoring tools at a fraction of the cost can already do this.

~jr