Strange then that it doesn't work on any of my systems!
You are testing the event gain, not track volume envelopes?

Bob.

Bob - just tried it in 7, 8, and 9e and it works fine using CTRL + left mouse. Although, can't see much speed difference on 7.

Kent

Again strange, the volume envelopes work just fine on all my systems so the mice and keyboards are obviously OK, it's JUST the event gain that they have no impact on and as I'm adjusting the gain of events down a LOT it's a major PIA but thanks for trying, truly wierd.

Well, let me put this another way. I can adjust the gain envelopes OK, it's just that holding down Ctl has no effect on the rate of gain adjustment as I drag.

Bob.

Ouch, you made me discover i still have 9.0 (original) on my laptop (maybe that's why AVCHD is such a dog). Updating now ...

Holding down the Ctrl key makes the audio gain move in 0.1dB increments. Without it the change is dependent on the audio track height, but definitely larger increments. It would appear to work here. Same result on the Video event opacity; 1% increments with Ctrl held down, larger increments without.

Installing 9.0e to test behavior ...

6 minutes later ... Same result with 9.0e as with 9.0.

Sorry Bob!

Bob -

I just went thru all the menu choices I could find and see nothing that would make a difference. Let us know what you find. If it was only one PC I'd suggest the SHIFT on reload to reset every thing, but that doesn't seem appropriate.

Kent

Bob, have you got CTRL+ assigned to something else? Or is it not assigned at all?

Grazie

>>By holding down the right mouse key while adjusting the sustain portion of the envelope.

In 9.0e, I can get this to adjust in fine increments (like -.1 at a time) using the CTRL + left mouse. Vegas help says "Hold Ctrl (or hold the right mouse button) while dragging to adjust the envelope in fine increments." -- I tried the right mouse and, like Bob, got nothing. Then I tried left first and then right mouse together. Strange, but that works! Works the same for Video Event Opacity in 9.0e .. I tried this in 8.0c and it does not work at all there. I don't see it in the Vegas help for 8.0c either. Was this something added in V9 ?

I never did get the right button to work, but the left worked fine in 7, 8, and 9 with CTRL and left button.

On the event gain, If I add the control button I get finer control just as advertised. However, the

right button does not work in any combination to change the value of the event gain.

I'm using a Kensington expert trackball for the mouse on my system.


Will

I've never seen anything BUT 0.1dB steps and any of my V9.0e (or previous version) systems. Ever.

Dragging down Event Level does not happen at all with my right-button (I do get the cursor though), and CTRL dhas no effect either button !

Also, track height doesn't affect.

Maybe the larger steps are a regional setting thing, or mouse device specific 'problem', but I doubt it.... I've never thought of my default as a problem, and couldn't imagine it operating any other way (ie coarser).

Also farrs, you did call it an 'envelope'. It's not an envelope - it is a line. And to further split hairs, it's not a 'gain' control, it is attentuation only ;-)

BUT ARE we talking about the same thing - the thin blue line that we can pull down from the top of each event that pulls down the level, and scales the waveform graphic ?

geoff

Yes, that thin blue line is the event gain (attenuation). In my system the control key plus left mouse button gives finer control than w/o the ctrl button.

"Bob, have you got CTRL+ assigned to something else? Or is it not assigned at all?"

Not specifically assigned to anything.
Please note ctl + work just fine with Track Volume Envelopes.
If it was an assignment issue I't think it'd affect both envelopes.

Bob.

"Also farrs, you did call it an 'envelope'. It's not an envelope - it is a line. And to further split hairs, it's not a 'gain' control, it is attentuation only ;-)"

It's not me calling it "gain" that's what the documentation calls it, specifically "Event Gain Envelope". If I was naming it indeed I would have called it "Event Attenuation Control" or some such because as you said it has no gain and it isn't an envelope (can't add nodes). Reason I stuck to what the documentation calls it was to avoid further clouding what we're talking about.

"BUT ARE we talking about the same thing - the thin blue line that we can pull down from the top of each event that pulls down the level, and scales the waveform graphic ?"

Phew, yes, thank you, we are.

"I've never seen anything BUT 0.1dB steps and any of my V9.0e (or previous version) systems. Ever.

Then you're seeing exactly what I'm seeing. No I don't want coarser or finerand this is not what the documentation describes either. Compare the track volume envelope behavior to the event "gain" behavior with and without CTL held down.

The gain steps remain the same, what changes is the distance the mouse has to be moved to make the same change is dBs. With the track volume you make coarse adjustments without the CTL key down, if you want fine / precise adjustment you hold down CTL while dragging up/down. The event gain does not work this way, CTL down or not makes no difference.

Bob.

"Yes, that thin blue line is the event gain (attenuation). In my system the control key plus left mouse button gives finer control than w/o the ctrl button. "

Thanks, something really strange going on here then. Geoff seems to be seeing the same behavior as me, you're not and I'm getting it on two systems, one running Win2K, the other XP and four versions of Vegas. Truly wierd.

I'll try installing Vegas on my new Win7 office system and see what happens.

Bob.

Bob it does make a small change here - with an unexpanded audio track size, I can toggle my drag easily between say -3.6db and -3.4db, but not single decimals, but with Ctrl held down, I can just as easily toggle -3.6db and -3.5db.

Working as per Peter.

Try reducing track height waaaay small. Adjusting the Gain is impossible. Now use the Ctrl - much better. As a test use the same approach to the Video Opacity.

Grazie

"Try reducing track height waaaay small. Adjusting the Gain is impossible. Now use the Ctrl - much better."

OK, NOW the penny has dropped!

Yes, if I make the tracks quite small THEN I can see a difference between having Ctl engaged or not, phew, really thought I was living in some alternate universe.


The thing is though I'm kind of forced to work with BIG tracks when making adjustments. Now when I do that, the Track Volume Envelopes are very slow to adjust, still, with Ctl engaged, the Event Gain Envelopes degree of retardations are not scaling with the track size. Does my description of the problem make any sense?

Bob.

Bob, I'm not sure this is directly answering your question, but from my experience described above, because it is already possible to very accurately adjust Event Gain Envelopes, even when the tracks are small, there is no improvement possible when they are expanded.

I haven't ever seen the need for control finer than 0.1dB !

Could it be a mouse 'dpi' resolution thing ?

geoff

Wasn't blaming you for the inconcise terminology ! I guess it become become an 'envelope' once fades are applied.

Also the primary name seems to be Event Volume , which is correct, but they do flip across into calling it 'gain' in the help/manual text.

As I just posted, I wonder if it is a mouse dpi resoution thing ? I get about 1dB change in 5mm mouse travel, CTRL or not. Which is OK for me. Will check out my other installs.

geoff

"Bob, I'm not sure this is directly answering your question, but from my experience described above, because it is already possible to very accurately adjust Event Gain Envelopes, even when the tracks are small, there is no improvement possible when they are expanded. "

Well yes and no, sort of.
Certainly the volume envelopes behave differently.
TBH in 10 years of using Vegas and over 50% of that for audio I've never before used Event Gain Envelopes but I've never been stupid enough to try mixing to "cinema" standards either. My problem is that for one event I might need to set Event Gain to -30dB and the next one on the same track to 0dB or even bounce it into SF and add 12dB.

Thanks to everyone for their input, my Vegas systems seem to be working the same as eveyone else's. Vegas is not doing what I'd like it to do however my needs for this project are most unusual, perhaps worthy of a Product Suggestion but in all honesty I couldn't justify development spending hours on this when probably only 0.001% of the user base might find it useful.

Bob.

I can think of one change that would be super-swell though, as long as we're talking about event gain.

In Sound Forge's Graphic Fade one can choose the maximum of the envelope to be 100%, 200%, or 400%. It would be nice if we could do something similar with Vegas, so that we could indeed push the line ^UP^ to increase the volume. Maybe choices for max being 0dB, +6dB, +12dB, and +30dB would cover the majority of situations.

I suppose it would be good (necessary) to have some sort of visual cue to let you know that *this* line at this level means something different than *that* line at the same level. Either that or it could be a project-wide setting.