"Extended Vegas 8 Integration" Boris Red 4.2

backlit wrote on 11/30/2007, 8:32 AM

I hope your assumption is correct Paul. As an owner of FX and Graphiti I have hoped for better integration for several years. Perhaps this is an indication that Boris is selling more stuff to Vegas users. When I talked to Boris a few years back they made two things clear: 1) All integration issues are the fault of Sony's poor plugin interface. 2) They can't/won't do anything to correct the issues. I don't know nor care how much of that is true or which company is at fault but velvet matter and new blue plugs are evidence that a better integration job can be done. I look forward to that effort...

David

StormMarc wrote on 11/30/2007, 9:07 AM

I would welcome this as well. I bought Graffiti recently because I needed the 3D chart capability but integration with Sony and most plug-ins is very poor compared to other applications.

Marc

malowz wrote on 12/1/2007, 7:42 AM

sorry, same thing as before. the "advanced" looks like it talk to vegas with 32bits (but i assume it only works inside as 16 bits)

the icon is now blue/yellow, and the rest is the same. you must configure the project to match your settings, put transition time, etc....

the reason as release notes say is the same: "vegas plugin architecture limitation"

rsp wrote on 12/1/2007, 2:39 PM

"When I talked to Boris a few years back they made two things clear: 1) All integration issues are the fault of Sony's poor plugin interface. 2) They can't/won't do anything to correct the issues."

Wish i had known that before purchasing their software ( both Fx and Graffitti )
It's working from within Vegas but not very smoothly overhere.
So like David i hope a better integration job will be done, not just leave paying customers with all kinds of issues or workarounds etc.

Rudi

Harold Brown wrote on 12/1/2007, 3:06 PM

There isn't anything Boris can do, it is Vegas. Same as other plug-ins that have similar limitations within Vegas.

bigrock wrote on 12/1/2007, 3:10 PM

Vegas will never be a considered a Professional tool as long as it has this joke of a plugin integration. Fairly typical across all Sony product lines, they do not play well with others plain and simple.

BigRockies.com Your Home in the Rockies!

kentwolf wrote on 12/1/2007, 3:57 PM

I use Red 4. (Vegas) Integration is still the same as always. Marginal.

I have, however been using Red as a plug-in to AfterEffects CS3. That is a very different animal. It's actually almost handy, which I believe is the intention.

With Vegas, I found it best to use Red as a stand-alone app. Make the pieces in Red, then bring them into Vegas.

That works just fine.

This kind of non-interoperability with plug-ins has also been reported for other plug-ins; not just Boris FX stuff. It's too bad.

BigBadBz wrote on 12/2/2007, 8:11 PM

James:

When you say you "use Red as a stand-alone app" -- does that mean you render the effect / title / etc. with Red and then bring the rendered video into Vegas, or do you do all the "creation" with Red and then render within Vegas? I ask because now that I have a graphics card with a reasonable amount of OpenGL "oomph" (nVidia Quadro FX 1500), I find the stand-alone FX / Graffiti keyframer to be pretty responsive. I'm thinking that working with the keyframer and then just aligning / rendering within Vegas would be the way to go for me...

Thanks for the input!

Regards,
Paul

kentwolf wrote on 12/2/2007, 9:16 PM

Paul:

>>...does that mean you render the effect / title / etc. with Red and then bring the rendered video into Vegas...

Yes. Exactly. I think I read in here that some others do this same thing. This has proven to be very reliable for me.

>>...do you do all the "creation" with Red and then render within Vegas?...

I have done that before, but I did not get good results. The case was some lower thirds I needed. Seems like a simple task to use Red (3GL) on the Vegas timeline, make what you need, then do a Vegas render. When I did the Vegas render, there was something amiss with the Red quality that made the lower thirds not look very good. When I rendered the exact same lower thirds in Red alone, they looked fine.

Something you can do is make a Red project in stand-alone mode, save the file as a Red project file. Then, you can apply Red to the Vegas timeline, Open Red on the Vegas timeline, then call up the Red project file you saved, then the project is now on the Vegas timeline in plug-in mode. You could do this to test the two qualities.

For whatever reason, the Vegas "best" render quality did not carry over to the Red render.

There is a chance this has since been corrected, but I never tried again after the stated problems.

I've gotten pretty used to making elements seperate from Vegas, then bring it all into Vegas. While a little cumbersome, I am used to it. Even the stuff I will make in AfterEffects will be going into Vegas.

Hope this helps.

kairosmatt wrote on 12/3/2007, 12:31 PM

"For whatever reason, the Vegas "best" render quality did not carry over to the Red render."

I have that same problem, and it also affects letter boxing as well. (Boris stuff won't letterbox if rendered by Vegas).

I'm very curious about the extended integration with Vegas 8 though...the Boris site is painfully thin on the subject.

Dreamline wrote on 12/3/2007, 1:33 PM

I've concluded that putting Boris Titles on empty events looks bad. However if I use media of any kind it does not. So I put my titles right on the backround media not on a empty event composited ontop.

Has anyone noticed this too?

I don't think you can directly change the resolution of an empty event (the way sony titles can have the resolution changed) without changing the properties of the project .

I have Boris FX & Graf., but decided to master what I have before I go to RED in Vegas.

mjroddy wrote on 12/4/2007, 10:39 AM

Been using Boris Red (3.x) for a while now, and have completely abandon trying to use it on the Vegas timeline.

My workflow is to use Vegas to create my timing marks (just create a loop region and note the duration) and time out my animations in the Stand Alone version of Red. This work remarkably well (for me), and produces text animations that are the envy of my FCP friends.
Just render out as an uncompressed 32bit MOV and drop that on the timeline.

Still, I'd MUCH rather have a "true" plugin, like I did in my old Speed Razor daze.

I didn't know that Red plugged into AE. I'm looking forward to trying that. Maybe I can get true 3D text out of AE without purchasing Zax! Awesome!

kentwolf wrote on 12/4/2007, 12:49 PM

>>I didn't know that Red plugged into AE.

Yup. And it works well too. You can do a preview and everything! (Not just a single frame).

>>...Maybe I can get true 3D text out of AE without purchasing Zax!

Funny you should say that.

I recently bought Zaxwerks ProAnimator 4 and it was *not* what I had anticipated. It has OK output and all, but I did not like it. I actually gave it to a (FCP) friend of mine; transferred the license and all. He really liked it.

I'll tell you, between AfterEffects CS3 + Red 4, there's not a whole lot more to even want, in my opinion. Some of the Trapcode plugins for AE are really nice though.

je@on wrote on 12/4/2007, 2:28 PM

And right now wouldn't you like to see someone from SCS weigh in with words of oh, I don't know, encouragement? This issue obviously pushes a button in a number of Vegas users.

SFX: Crickets!

mjroddy wrote on 12/4/2007, 2:37 PM

If you are serious about the Trapcode plugs, go to DigitalJuice.com and check out their specials page. They're selling three TC plugins for half price.
I THINK it's a really good deal. I got the trio last week and am anxiously awaiting their arrival.

kentwolf wrote on 12/4/2007, 9:22 PM

>>... I got the trio last week...

Me too...plus some extras. :)

deusx wrote on 12/4/2007, 9:37 PM

>>>Vegas will never be a considered a Professional tool as long as it has this joke of a plugin integration<<<

Actually it would be the opposite. Hi end ( pro ) production would use something like fusion or maya or xsi for most of the effects, and none of those are available as a plug-in for anything.

So, an argument could be made that plugins for NLEs are for not so pro or hi-end productions. For real pro / hi end production, you have to use a standalone app or apps and render there and bring it into your NLE.

kentwolf wrote on 12/5/2007, 12:36 PM

>>...plugins for NLEs are for not so pro or hi-end productions...

I know I read an article the other day how Trapcode plugins were used in AfterEffects for Spiderman 3. They used a lot of other things too, but AE/plugins were on the list. :)

BigBadBz wrote on 12/12/2007, 7:20 PM

Just to sort of bring this back to the original topic, Boris has released a Graffiti 5.2 update:

http://www.borisfx.com/updates/#graffiti

I've loaded it, and it does indeed install Graffiti for Vegas 8, but I can't see where the release notes were updated at all. So I guess this verifies what the Red users said -- "extended" integration doesn't mean much.

Also, if anyone update to 5.2 -- I noticed that playing animated "previews" in the Library Browser caused the thing to go into a loop that I couldn't stop within the Library Browser - I had to use the timeline controls. A new "feature" to have to contend with?

Regards,
Paul

deusx wrote on 12/12/2007, 8:30 PM

>>>I know I read an article the other day how Trapcode plugins were used in AfterEffects for Spiderman 3. They used a lot of other things too, but AE/plugins were on the list. :)<<<

Fusion ( whiich was the main compositor used for Spiderman ) also takes AE plug ins, and who knows how much or little it's used for ( trapcode ).

Besides I said NLE plug-ins, not compositing app plugins. There are fusion plugins ( actually most of them ) that cost more than the entire FCP suite.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 12/17/2007, 9:37 AM

Question: does the motion stabilizer work for somebody in the Vegas timeline?