External monitor

Videojohn wrote on 8/13/2003, 7:39 AM
Hello,

I work now viewing the pictures on an external monitor through my camera mini DV: Fom the computer (Fire wire OUT) to the camera (Fire wire IN) and RCA OUT to the TV.
But I am searching a card TV out (RCA and SVideo) to go directly from the computer to the TV. Which card or system should I use (at which price)?

I also want to use another monitor to be more confortable with all the windows!
What is the best card for that?

Thank you in advance.

Comments

RBartlett wrote on 8/13/2003, 7:53 AM
You want to use a dual head AGP card for your dual computer monitor angle.
OHCI firewire ports are the only way to preview/scrub in Vegas4 right now. TV-out cards don't cut it yet - you are confusing Vegas with Premiere.

Hopefully it will be all sorted soon. In which case a Matrox Parhelia (128 or 256MB) or possibly a P750 (if Sonic Foundry see the light as it were) would suit both of your needs. I'd be reluctant to buy a Parhelia for Vegas based on the current situation.

Consider a second hand Matrox G450-DualHead-32MB (dual VGA to be used only as TV-out mode has poor color dynamics) and a new Canopus ADVC-100 (or equiv. ADS Pyro A/V-link unit) - to convert from DV on firewire to its analogue representation on SVIDEO.

A Parhelia could be used if you only want to check your final render (by employing Windows Media Player on a DV, MJPEG or MPEG final render). However if this is your workflow you might not add a great percentage of time by going out to a DVDRW and seeing this on a TV/broadcast-monitor.

I was disappointed that Vegas3 had a preview that couldn't use any type internal PC display adapter card to give TV-out. I was really surprised this was also missed in the Vegas4. However I am very pleased it is being considered as it is more than a convenience. Potentially this is a policy where an enhanced output can be provided and even HD down the line. Hopefully with one programming effort by SoFo.
lcrf wrote on 8/13/2003, 8:06 AM
I also use my dv camera for external preview.
The Pyro a/v link works well for external preview ?
JJKizak wrote on 8/13/2003, 8:12 AM
I presently use an ADVC-100 Canopus for converting the firewire out to
the "S" video TV set. I also have the Matrox Parhelia video card which outputs
"S" video to a tv set but only if you are playing Media Player, Power DVD,
or a "render to media player" or capturing. Since you cannot use the Parhelia for
ordinary tv set previewing during editing I use the recommended firewire setup. I will punch a button on my distribution amplifier to look at the rendered preview or captured media and the quality is very good. So far I can't tell the difference.

JJK
Begbie wrote on 8/13/2003, 9:15 AM
cant you use tvout an then drag the preview window to the second monitor? i havent tried yet, but imagine this would be possible?

Si there such a beast as a firewire monitor? if so how expensive? Very i bet...
BillyBoy wrote on 8/13/2003, 9:32 AM
The whole point of having a firewire out to an external monitor is to BYPASS the video card! Hooking up just another monitor defeats the purpose. Other than expanding your desktop and dragging some elements to a second monitor, its a no-no.

WhY?

As said repeatedly, TV's and computers display colors and levels differently. The reason for having a signal go through firewire bypassing the video card is you get to see how your project if the final version is intended to be viewed off a TV looks and you adjust off it, not your computer screen.

If you use a S video set up the singal is inferior and again you defeat the purpose.

So depends WHY you want a second monitor. To just spread out your desktop, get a dual headed video card or just install a second video card if you have on laying around.

If however you want to adjust color/levels be very happy that Vegas allows this via a firewire because then all you need is a TV, NOT A MONITOR. You want a color TV with video in. Or if you got money to burn, a NTSC monitor which is a different and far more expensive type of monitor than your typical computer monitor.
RBartlett wrote on 8/13/2003, 10:11 AM
Sony professional video monitors are now available with built-in DV-in aswell.

S-Video ports on PCI/AGP cards are not inherently inferior to camera or converter outputs. However if a corner can be cut it will be. So these TV-out ports do tend to be inferior and can need extra care in cable routeing and quality. Even where the port quality is excellent, the hostile signal environment in a PC (for which DV/OHCI eally starts to make sense - even with a sad color sampling matrix) can be routed effectively to a decent TV monitor.

Broadcast phospors are starting to miss the point. Plasma, LCD and economy TVs have all manner of gamma characteristics now. So the old school is abated by conforming.

To use a VGA monitor for preview (from the desktop) is inappropriate from the gamma and interleaving point of view. Even those VGA monitors with 15kHz inputs (directly or through line doublers) that have color temp adjustment - can't be relied on for your work. I think the argument that the aspect ratio cabn't be matched is a bit poor for those who can use the controls and own a ruler!

There is a difference between elegant artistry and practical electronics that mostly comes down to the pocket. The end results can be equal but the route to them is usually more wasteful with the practical methods of quality control.

I would choose a dual head AGP card instead of adding a PCI card. I prefer drivers that present the OS with a single display ('1') that spans more than one monitor. Also I prefer to keep the PCI bandwidth to a minimum to keep the disc I/O "up there".

Interesting conversation.
BillyBoy wrote on 8/13/2003, 11:32 AM
I think its important to try to keep the discussion as non technical as possible. Not easy for a technical subject, but lets try. In a nutshell the colors (hue) and levels (brightness) of any image viewed on a computer monitor is DIFFERENT than what you'll see on a TV. There's no getting away from that.

The reason is with computers the colors and levels are controlled mostly by the video card which can be set to various screen resolutions and color depths With a CRT type TV, (old fashioned picture tube) the colors are the result of three primary colors, red, blue and green being processed by a different type of circuity. While the old style computer monitor also employs a similar picture tube, the color depth (number of shades possible in a palette) can be far greater than the range generated by a television. Also to be taken into the mix is something called color temperature, see link below for more specifics:

http://www.schorsch.com/kbase/glossary/cct.html

Out of the box, your computer monitior probably defaults to a tried and true mid range color temperature. Some higher end software like Photoshop provide other switchable settings. Some video cards also allow you to adjust this. It basically boils down to how will the colors look, like they would in daylight, maybe under incandescent lighting and so on (accomplished by changing the color temperature). Colors can be made warmer or cooler expressed by the number of degrees on the Kelvin scale as to their relative warmth.

That kind of adjustment isn't directly possible with a consumer grade television. So that's the reason why its a good idea to make color and level adjuments not from looking at a computer monitor, but rather by viewing a TV, since afterall that's how your end project (typically) is going to be viewed... off a TV, unless of course you're making a video for another medium like a web site. Then ignore all you just read.

Much talk about IDE values has been discussed in the forum in other threads which really pertains to legal broadcast signal strength of a TV where the determining factor of brightness in a computer monitor is more a function of gamma which not surprising is different in the PC world than it is in the Mac world. So in effect there are at least 3 very different scales.

How a picture looks on a TV (properly calibrated please)
How the same picture will look on a PC monitor
How the same picture will look on a Mac monitor

If you want to get extra picky it can also look different on a Plasma and LED monitor.

To further compound things the typical consumer TV as Joe Average views it isn't calibrated properly with both brightness and contrast likely cranked up far higher than it should be. So of course if you DO use a correctly calibrated external monitor keep that in mind.