When I insert an opacity envelope on the upper track ...

??? Maybe that's your problem. I'm not sure what an "opacity envelope" is. The only two "envelopes" I can find are "composite" and "fade to color"

Picky - picky - picky.... OK, so it's a composite level envelope (that happens to control opacity in this case). By whatever name, it's not working.

RalphM

Can't repro your issue. Rendered to MP4 with a PNG on lowest Track - works fine. Playback in VLC player.

I CAN repro a BLACK if I use the FADE Envelope. This Fades TO and FROM a colour. As BLACK (lowest) and WHITE (highest) are the defaults a redux on the Fade gets me to the BLACK. Did you do this? Would really need to see the VEG and/or screen grab of workspace to assist further?

I used the "Level" slider with the Composite Mode set to Source Alpha.

Always willing to learn here!

Grazie

Thanks Grazie,

No, it's definitely the composite level envelope. The interesting issue here is that it is not consistent when rendering to mp4. Sometimes it works correctly. I rendered the same file to avi with no problems, but that was only one render.

I'll run some more trials later in the day to see if there is a pattern.

RalphM

Is there a reason you need the "envelope" feature? In other words .. do you need to add points to the envelope line so that you can vary the effect over time, or do you only need to adjust the transparency to a fixed level for the entire clip?

If the latter you don't need the envelope. Just bring your cursor to the top of the clip and grab the opacity line (not sure if that's the proper term for it) and drag it down to whatever level you need.

It's just a very simple fade out of the upper track over a part of a second to reveal the lower track. In this case, a talking head on the upper track with an occasional fade out to reveal maps and text on the lower track.
RalphM

Try splits and regular fades.

Try splits and regular fades.

Yeah, I think that would work for you.

Make a Split in the upper track where you would want the end of the fade out. Make another Split in the upper track where you want the fade in to start.

Fade out the first clip for the desired time. Fade in the third clip as well.

For the second clip you have two options .. delete the clip or leave it there and make it completly transparent.

This is not as "elegant" as using an envelope but it should work.

OK,
I've played with this for quite some time this evening. It actually shows up during editing as well. When I'm playing the timeline and there is there is a fade to zero on the upper track opacity I get the black screen pretty consistently. It can usually be cleared by changing the preview setting to a lower resolution, especially if I go down to draft/auto.

If I stop the cursor when the black screen appears and click the split screen view, the lower track png apears on the left side, the black on the right.

If I split the upper clip and delete the portion above the png, the black screen is still there. If I then Solo the png's track the png appears.

I appreciate the suggestions and the project I needed to do has been completed. I just don't want this to show up in the middle of an hour long render somewhere in the future. That's why I'm beating this horse...

Did you set a different compositing mode for the video track? If i set the compositing mode set to Multiply (Mask) or Cut i can reproduce exactly what you describe in every detail. You probably want it set to Source Alpha.

Thanks Kelly,

No, it's set to Source Alpha. I'm wondering if I'm inadvertantly causing a problem by stretching the png files on the lower track. They were originally exported from PPT as 2 second long pngs. I've stretched some of them as long as two minutes.

The other really wierd thing is that the most consistent way to cause the appearance of the problem is to place an mp4 file on the video track following the video file being edited. Playing several seconds of the mp4, then going back to the video being edited will trigger the black fadeouts in almost every case.

My eyes are done for today. Will play with this some more tomorrow.
Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

RalphM

> "They were originally exported from PPT as 2 second long pngs." - What is "PPT"?

Anyway! A Repro of something weird - yes! Red Frames at the Event Horizons - where the SD-AVI meets the MP4. Vegas has indigestion and hangs and then crashes. - Pouff!

So your . . . .

> "The other really wierd thing is that the most consistent way to cause the appearance of the problem is to place an mp4 file on the video track following the video file being edited.

. . IS a repro here. And what do Red Frames give us children? They give us NO Media! And what happens when we render "No Media"? We get BLACK!

Is this a light at the end of the Tunnel or a train approaching?

Moral of story? Don't mix this format with SD AVI. I really don't think that this is the PNG stuff?

Grazie

Hold on!!!!

When you do your Fades of the SD Track, you haven't also selected the PNG Track too? That's how I can repro this. But you would have noticed this in your Preview? Yes?

Grazie

A while back I remember issues with PTT PNG files created from Mac, for example copy and past from PTT to create new media would create problems on a PC

EDT. they would show up as black

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=676015If this was it, it was Bob doing a Print To Tape function not a "PTT file"?[/link]

However, the nod at QT and the formats of PNG and TIFF did come under suspicion though.

PTT, here in Vegas-land, is Print To Tape.

Is there still a connection then?

Grazie

Grazie, et al, a few posts back Ralph said They were originally exported from PPT....
If I'm correct, PPT means PowerPoint and not Print to Tape but he'll have to confirm this.

Mike

Responding to some of the suggestions/comments made while I slept...

The chain of creation of the png files was: PPT presentation created on a Mac, the entire presentation copied to a CD which was then used in one of my PCs to export the slides as png files.

The project consists of an avi file (18 min long) placed on the top track, png files placed on lower track. Png files stretched out to cover up to two minutes. Opacity of the avi track dragged down to zero in several places using the composite level envelope when I want the png files to appear. Also on a lower track is a wav file extracted from a CD that was prepared as dual sound to the camera, and sync'd to the camera sound. (Most of this is irrelevant, just wanted to give the complete picture)

The png files were not sharp since PPT exported them as 72 dpi, and my PPT is too old for the published hacks to work. Therefore, the png track was duplicated, the upper png track opacity slider reduced to 55% and the lower track sharpened.

When all settings and fades were to my liking, I rendered an avi file which worked perfectly and was used to generate a DVD for use that afternoon.

Later in the day, I had been asked to put the video on Vimeo, so I rendered from the project a high quality mp4 and uploaded to Vimeo. The file was perfect but it was 400+MB. I decided to determine if I could keep reasonable quality by going to a smaller file size. I pulled the first mp4 on to the same track in the original project to examine comparable qualitiy. I don't know whether it ever actually abutted the original avi file, but I can reproduce the problem using the mp4 separated by several seconds.

I also reproduced the problem by opening a new project using different avi files but the same png files stretched as before. All previews perfectly until I place an mp4 file on the same timeline following the avi files, then the black video appears at the fades.

I did check to see that the png track(s) are not selected for the fades.

Sounds like the mp4 is the culprit here. I don't work with mp4 as source material right now, but I can see where this may be a problem in the future.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions; they made me think back to how the problem first manifested itself.

RalphM

I meant PPT there are so many abbreviations these days you walk into an office and say “ I’ve just got the new PPT “ and everyone backs off in fear wanting to know if its curable

Mike? My reference was for XFX to look back at THAT thread I researched and linked to. In THIS context I was wanting to know just what PPT PNG was? And why mention it here?

It's taken 12 hours to have the connection surface.

Simples!

Grazie

PS: I do know that PPT is a PowerPoint suffix.

"Sounds like the mp4 is the culprit here"

I assume this was the mp4 file that you encoded out of Vegas to upload to Vimeo?

If so which encoder did you use to encode it with?
What settings did you use to encode it?

Bob.

The project consists of an avi file (18 min long) placed on the top track, png files placed on lower track. Png files stretched out to cover up to two minutes. Opacity of the avi track dragged down to zero in several places using the composite level envelope when I want the png files to appear.

Hmmm ... did you have a reason for not putting the png pics on the UPPER track?

That's the way I would have done it. Make the pics as long as you want to show them and just fade them in and out. It seems a *lot* simpler than how you are trying to do it.

Not sure why it would be simpler that way. The avi file is the one used most, and it contains the physical cues as to when I wanted to show the png files.

The other issue is that the png track was duplicated for purposes of sharpening, so I was dealing with two png tracks.