file formats

joejon wrote on 7/17/2009, 7:52 PM
I'm in the process of having some old Super8 tapes transferred to video, but I'm confused on formats. One place said the format they use is DVD Video for the DVD to play in a player and then he could also do .avi onto a hard drive that was in FAT32 format so I could put it into Vegas to edit. The other place said that they have the DVD in .vob format and could also transfer the tapes onto a Digital8 tape so that I could put it in my camcorder and capture to my computer. I know Vegas captures in .avi, but I don't understand the other formats mentioned. Which transfer place seems to have the correct methods and formats for what I want to do, which is get the Super8 on to a DVD for my brothers and sisters, but then also have it transferred in as high of quality format possible to capture/pull into Vegas for editing? Any help with this is appreciated.

Comments

PerroneFord wrote on 7/17/2009, 9:28 PM
Any conversion of film to video that is "ready for DVD" is highly compressed and generally unsuitable for editing in Vegas.

You have a choice to make. Either you are going to get GOOD scans and make the DVDs yourself, or you are going to get low quality files only suitable for direct printing to DVD and that will be ugly if you try to edit.

The questions to ask (other than cost) are:

What will the final resolution be (is it HD or SD). HD or 2k (2048x1024) scanning is more costly, but will give superior results and will give you a fighting chance to do something decent in Vegas.

What file format will the file be in:

Saying .AVI means nothing. It's like asking what kind of car you have and you saying a blue car. AVI is a container in which MANY different kinds of compressed data can go. You need to find out what KIND of AVI file it is, and also what resolution. Generally it will be SD (720x480) or HD (1920x1080). Larger size here is better.

Will the film be color corrected and cleaned up:

Old film has lots of dust, particles, and may be showing it's age. Careful scanning and processing can remove a lot of these issues, but at a cost. You'll have to decide if the price is worth it to you.

FAT32 is a disk format. It has zero to do with what kind of files will go on the disk.

VOB and Mpeg2 are both DVD ready formats. You want to FINISH with these, not start the process with these. IF you don't ever plan on editing the footage, then these two are suitable.

Do NOT let them put files back on the tape. That's ridiculous. They convert the film to a file based format, then record that format back to tape (losing quality), then let you capture the tape back to file format. Silly.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/17/2009, 10:44 PM
Have your Super8 movies transferred to DV-AVI files.
That is the most accessible high quality format for import into Vegas and/or DVDA.
joejon wrote on 7/21/2009, 1:39 PM
I called back and asked the questions. I was told that it will be SD at 720x480 and he said since the final output after I edit will be on a dvd that that resolution is more than I need. He said that the film will be scanned using frame-by-frame and would then be in dv format. He then would convert it to AVI to put on the hard drive. I think he uses Macintosh equipment. Further questions I have: Is he correct that the scan resolution is fine at 720x480? I read somewhere that Super 8 was 800 lines. Can Vegas use a DV file or will he need to convert it to AVI? If he converts it from the DV format after the scan to AVI will I lose quality? I'm not sure whether to go with this person or not. I don't mind spending a little bit more to get something that is going to look better.
reberclark wrote on 7/21/2009, 2:20 PM
I have had fantastic results digitizing both regular 8 and super 8 from these guys:

http://www.digitaltransfersystems.net/

They provide many delivery options. I opt for DVDs with AVI files only (not ready-to-view DVDs). The results are clean and well done. I believe they are SD DV wrapped in AVI. HD is available as are many other options. No, I don't have an interest in the company :-)
musicvid10 wrote on 7/21/2009, 4:13 PM
I read somewhere that Super 8 was 800 lines.

Whoa. Let's back up.
Super 8 isn't about "lines." It's a film format, not a video format.

Are you talking about transferring Super 8 movies or High 8 Video?
There is absolutely no connection between the two, and movie transfers are an entirely different process than analog-to- digital video tape transfers.

If you indeed want to transfer High 8 video, connect the High 8 camcorder to a cheap Canon Mini-DV with A->D passthrough and do the work yourself. It wouldn't be much better by paying someone a ton of money to do the same thing.
joejon wrote on 7/21/2009, 6:12 PM
I'm talking about Super 8 film, not 8mm tapes. I know I can transfer/capture my Digital8 tapes myself as I have done it many times in Vegas for my video projects. I didn't say it did have 800 lines of resolution, I said that on some web site someone said that so I thought I'd throw that out there to see what that was about. I don't know much about Super 8 film, I just have the tapes that my parents took when I was a kid. That's what I want to have transferred to a hard drive so that I can edit them in Vegas. The question I was asking was, is the 720x480 SD scanning good enough to pull into Vegas for editing or do I need something higher? Also, the place I called said they scan the film and it is then in DV format, which he then said he needed to convert to AVI to put on the hard drive. Is this standard procedure for this type of thing or is there a better way to do it?
musicvid10 wrote on 7/21/2009, 8:14 PM
The question I was asking was, is the 720x480 SD scanning good enough to pull into Vegas for editing

Without a doubt, yes. You are starting with a tiny grainy frame and scanning at higher than SD resolution is not going to improve on it. Super 8 by no means would resolve 800 lpi, the finest grain b/w film under ideal conditions will barely accomplish that . . .

However, if you plan on doing custom pan / crop, there are those here who would argue convincingly that you should have the film transferred to an HD format, but doing so may reduce the ease of editing in Vegas.

Also, the place I called said they scan the film and it is then in DV format, which he then said he needed to convert to AVI to put on the hard drive.

DV can be wrapped as either .mov or .avi, but other than that it is the same afaik.

Tollaksen wrote on 7/22/2009, 8:54 AM
I don't think that you can write a file over 4GB to a fat 32 system. I could be wrong but I think I had some problems years ago.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Tollaksen
joejon wrote on 7/22/2009, 5:22 PM
Every place that I called had a little bit different information and ways they transfer film. One lady said she sends it out to be put on a dvd and she would then put it on to the hard drive. That's just crazy. I think I decided to go with Astound since the person there made the most sense and was more in line with the information that I got from everyone on the forum that posted to my questions. The person at Astound said they transfer frame-by-frame and it would be in standard definition DV codec that he then would put into an AVI file. He said something about 25mb/sec. but I'm not sure what that was. He said the dv-avi file is 5 times better quality than if it was on a dvd in mpg2 format. I'm not sure if that's correct or not, but I hope it will be high enough quality so that it is usable for editing. Thanks for all the help.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/22/2009, 5:42 PM
DV is DV25 is 25Mbs.