i can playback mov files from my canon T2i just fine on my vaio i3 laptop w/4gb. but as soon as i overlap clips, vegas stutters. in order to edit you need to transcode. cineform, mxf, i've used both successfully and i don't see much difference in quality between them.

and you don't need to go back to the mov, the cf or mxf is now master. i know it's an extra step, but avid does the same thing.

there seems to be some issue with avchd smart rendering on 9d and 9e, and i haven't tested this, but sr should work w/avi and mxf, meaning that only transitions and overlays will need to be rendered.

It is my experience that Vegas generally have issues with decoding h.264. Encoding it as well for that matter, when I used 32-bit it was a easy to bring Vegas to it's knees just by asking it to render h.264 from an h.264 source.

I am fully aware that h.264 is a CPU hog due to it's massive compression rate, and I'm starting to suspect that the h.264 decoder used in Vegas has yet to be seriously optimized for speed. When implementing a new format you start by getting it right (quality wise) then you start making it faster, h.264 is still relatively new.

If this is really the case (and that is a big IF I might add), it would have been nice had they implemented a less accurate, but much faster h.264 decoder for use on the preview/cutting stage.

I believe its pretty much standard practice to re-encode the MOV files to Cineform or Sony XMF file format. Editing becomes much more efficient. This is also the case across the majority, if not all NLEs.

Chad

I don't see the container as having much if any bearing on the issue. If it contains H.264 then that's the codec that's used to do the decode. Same goes for XDCAM EX, despite some people's confusion no one would suggest the XCAM EX is not long GOP mpeg-2. Certainly some apps might not be able to read the container and therefore simply be unable to get at the data stream to present to the codec. but once over that hurdle I cannot see much CPU load imposed from whatever the container is telling the app.

What I suspect is the issue is H.264 is not a fixed length GOP and all manner of stratergies seem to be used to encode what is complaint H.264 that may cause the decoder some degree of hardship in getting the data out. Worse I've noticed some considerable difference in the decode quality. V9.0e seems to produce a decode with less color banding and blocking than V9.0b.

The best all of us seem able to come up with though are educated guesses and it would save a lot of angst and at times heated debates here, if SCS were to clarify what is going on.

On a positive note I see Vegas now includes a "Sony Media Encoder". This may have come from their work on the BluPrint project. Would be good if in the future we get a more capable Sony Media Encoder.

Bob.

Premiere Pro CS3 was release some 3-4 years ago and plays back the 5D2 files better than the most recent version of Vegas.

With CS5 (and even with the Cuda support *disabled*) it plays back the 5D2 files at full frame rate.

Maybe it's more than just a h.264 decoder? Perhaps something with the entire code that controls preview and performance? I'm asking this becasue if you look at how various codecs play back in relation to the preview settings (preview: full/half/quarter and good: full, halft, quarter) etc. then there's really no logic in how it works.


For instance 1:

At Preview Quarter, Cineform plays back sigbificantly better than MXF.

At Good Full MXF plays back significantly better than Cineform.


For instance 2:

At around the same CPU percentage during playback MXF can play back smoothly att full fram rate. Cineform plays back att full frame rate, but stutters when the footage is panning etc.

In other NLE's the previw setting quality is directly related to the perceived quality off course. Like in Vegas. But it is also directly linked to the video preview quality and smoothness.

In Vegas you can find a setting you would think should prview worse but it's actually better. And vice versa. And depending on the codec you're play etc.

Btw. Isn't Vegas - just like Avid and Premier - using the QT codec to read these 5D2 files? How come this codec works for Avid and Premier and not in Vegas? (well Avid is transcoding I know - but Premier).


Lars

"Isn't Vegas - just like Avid and Premier - using the QT codec to read these 5D2 files"

I don't know about 5D2 files however I tried some H.264 in MOV flles from another camera. In V9.0b playback was woeful and transcoding was a disaster as audio sync drifted all over the place. Playback was better in Ppro but transcoding them with Ppro yielded files that played back in perfect sync in Vegas.

Thankfully V9.0e fixed the sync problem and I have not updated QT. I only needed to trim the camera files so the still woefull playback wasn't that much of an issue.

Cineforms codecs are very smart. The host can request the decode a different resolutions and quality. I don't know first hand how well Vegas makes use of this.

Bob.

Bob: "....it would save a lot of angst and at times heated debates here, if SCS were to clarify what is going on."


Lars: Exactly! While Avid and others openly communicate and show what they have and where thay want to go etc.

SCS leaves room for speculation. Like: "maybe they just don't how to tackle all this and remaining silent is the best option" Or something. But the danger in this is that users across the world feel like Adobe and Avid etc are *understanding* their real needs and the *real* issues "out there" while SCS pretend things are ok.

I know - some guys on this forum are enjoying 100% stutterfree performance and have no issues at all with the toughest 1920x1080 multi stream projects and 3D motion. Such a shame though that their methods and hardware solutions are kept so secret... ;)

SCS remains equally silent. While version after version is being released with the same poor preview performance.

Well, the 5D2 files in vegas now play on my machine at 11-13 fps instead of 7 fps. Wow, now my car has THREE wheels - before it just had two!

That's far from good when competition - on the same PC - plays at full frame rate even during dissolves... And even during moving text and some 3D work going.



Lars