Follow VMS wizards, DVDA still wants to recompress

SBR wrote on 7/19/2011, 3:23 AM

Purchased Sony Movie Studio HD Platinum Suite and trying to make a simple Blu-Ray disc of a photo slideshow with music.

I am using all the menu choices offered me by VMS and DVDA, yet doing so requires DVDA to render what VMS already did. I'd like to understand why so I can better use these products.

My steps:
Start Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD:
1) New Project - Blu-Ray Disc, Blu-ray 1920x1080 -24p (vs. 3 others, including 1920x1080i-60i), Stereo, Americas and Japan
2) Add music to Music track
3) Add Photos to Video track & stretch photos as group to match music length
4) Save as project
5) Project Menu / Make Movie (go into “wizard”)
a) choose “Burn it to a DVD or Blu-ray Disc”
b) Select the type of disc to burn, choose “Blu-ray Disc”
c) Choose a Video file and Audio file path
d) Wait while renders and saves .m2v and .w64 file
e) Click “Send to DVD Architect Studio” button

Start using DVD Architect:
1) First thing I notice from either Optimizer or by actually burning a Blu-ray disc is:
The video has to be recompressed by DVDA because “24p encoding is not supported in this product.” The menu has to be recompressed, too, but that I understand.

I feel like if I make native choices in both products, I should be okay (not have to render twice).

If I go back and choose 1920x1080-60i in step 1), I don't have to render twice.

Is this a simple case of 24p Blu-ray not being supported DVDA? Seems odd it would be a valid choice in Step 1 of VMS then?

Thanks for any help understanding this process...

- Sean

Comments

SBR wrote on 7/19/2011, 3:27 AM

Added piece of info: If I check Project/Properties of the VMS project, it tells me I am using a "Custom (1920x1080, 23.976 fps)" template in the video tab. I certainly didn't hand pick a template in the process I used, so I'm suprised choosing native default options to questions would give me this "custom" template.

- Sean

Kimberly wrote on 7/19/2011, 7:10 AM

Hello SBR:

Check DVD-A's Help/Contents and Index and search for Recompression, Avoiding or a similar phrase. I'm using DVD-A 5.2 so my Help topics may not have identical titles to yours.

In the Help it will tell you the audio and video file formats that DVD-A can process without rendering. There should be direction as to which VMS templates to choose for DVD-A. Note that VMS may have to render your AVCHD footage in order to get it into a format that does not require rendering in DVD-A. I don't know for sure on that part.

I can paste in the bit from my Help if you cannot locate this information but it would be better for you to use the Help that pertains exactly to your version.

Regards,

Kimberly

PeterDuke wrote on 7/19/2011, 8:13 AM

Could you state the versions of Vegas Movie Studio and DVD Architect (Studio?) you are using? There may be some changes between versions.

SBR wrote on 7/19/2011, 6:00 PM

Thanks, Kimberly and Peter... sorry, thought I posted the version: Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite, which is VMS 10.0 and DVDA 5.0.

As far as avoiding recompression via template, I understand what you are asking, but I didn't pick any template - I answered questions from VMS in step 1 (and picked Blu-ray 1920x1080 -24p). When I look at "Properties" of the project, it tells me that by doing that, I have in fact, "picked" the template "Custom (1920x1080, 23.976 fps)"

I guess I assumed if I (as a newbie) just answered questions with default choices, everything I chose in VMS would be DVDA-friendly.

The fact that my choice turned out to be a Custom setting probably means I am not using a template that avoids recompression.

Which seems odd - seems like I have to know that I should choose not any "New Project" setting offered by VMS, only ones that match approved templates.

In the end, simply answering questions (not picking anything custom) seems to have put me into a custom template that requires recompression. Seems like VMS and DVDA are not completely in synch.

Also, is there a reason DVDA says 24p encoding is not supported? I didn't see that in any of the docs or anything.

- Sean

PeterDuke wrote on 7/19/2011, 11:45 PM

The DVDA Studio 5 manual on page 15 seems to say that you have done the right thing. It says that you can get more information by accessing Help.

I can't help further since I am using DVDA Pro, and it might be different.

Try choosing a different template and see if you can find one that DVDA Studio likes.

SBR wrote on 7/20/2011, 4:19 AM

I can find another one that works - 1920x1080/60i - no recompression if I make an interlaced HD blu-ray disc.

Which is fine, but I was under the impression I could make a blu-ray progressive scan disc with this software.

I'm not sure what DVDA recompresses my project into, but it clearly says "24p not supported" for a VMS project I made in 24p.

Googling "24p not supported" didn't help much.

Thanks for looking into this - much appreciated!

- Sean

Kimberly wrote on 7/20/2011, 11:05 AM

In your Project Properties, have you selected Match Media Settings? You will find this setting in Video tab of your Project Properties. Go there and hover your mouse over the icon to the far right of the Template line. In my version the icon appears as a filmstrip icon. In VMS it may appear as a folder icon. But the words Match Media Settings will display when you hover your mouse over the icon. Follow the prompts.

Once you have done that, go to Render As. For now, choose the Save As type to be MainConcept MPEG-2.

Now for your render Template choose the Blu-ray template that has the equals ( = ) sign next to it. That is the template that should (in theory) go through DVD-A without further rendering. You can experiment with other Save As types. Just be sure to choose the Blu-ray template with the equals ( = ) sign.

Note you may need to render your audio separately. This is not hard. Post back if you need help with that.

Okay give this a try and let us know what happens.

Regards,

Kimberly

SBR wrote on 7/22/2011, 4:43 PM

Hi Kimberly, thanks,

Re: Match Media Settings:
---------------------------
I'm a bit confused about what I'm supposed to do with the "Match Media Settings" button. Help claims it will match the project properties of the current project to an existing media file. I have only the media file I'm creating for this project? Sure enough, if I click it, it just gives me an explorer window from which I can pick a media file.

Re: Using "Render As MainConcept MPEG-2" vs. Make Movie Wizard:
--------------------------------
It gives me an equal sign ("=") next to "Blu-Ray 1920x1080-24p 25 Mbps" which is certainly what I was trying for. It makes an .m2v file that overwrites the other one I made. I can render the audio seperately okay, too.

Still: When going into DVDA, starting a new menu based project, picking Blu-Ray, MPEG-2, 1920x1080-24.000p 16:9, and.....

..... Optimize agains says it will recompress. Reasons for recompression: "24p encoding is not supported in this product."

So has any in the forums made a 24p VMS media file and brought
it into DVDA to make a 24p Blu-Ray and not had DVDA recompress.
Seems like it can't. Maybe DVD Pro can.

Kimberly wrote on 7/22/2011, 6:03 PM

That's weird on DVD-A.

The Match Media Settings tells VMS what kind of media you are using so that it can show you the right render template with the equals ( = ) sign. Otherwise VMS has no way of knowing what your media is in your Project Properties Video tab unless you choose the template manually.

Anyway, if your footage is 24p and VMS is giving you a 24p BD template, then that part sounds like it's working correctly.

I tested DVD-A as follows and did not have a recompression message:

I prepared a 1920x1080 24p file using the Mainconcept Save As type. The template was Blu-ray 1920x1080-24p 25 mbps.
The audio was AC-3.

In DVD-A, I chose File New.
I chose a menu-based project.
Disc Format: Blu-ray Disc.
Project Video Format: MPEG-2 1920x1080-24p, 16:9
Project Audio: AC-3

I added my files. The video file was a *.M2V and the audio file was a *.AC3. When I chose Optimize Disk, I had a green checkmark next to each file.

When I chose File/Make Blu-ray Disc, I didn't get a message about recompression for the audio and video files. Note that the menu and related text, graphics, etc., were rendered, but not the audio and video.

So how does the above workflow compare to what you are doing? If it's the same, in theory, your audio and video should not recompress in DVD-A even though your menu and text will recompress. Hopefully you will see something different in the above and this will work for you. Otherwise I don't know what to suggest : (

Regards,

Kimberly

SBR wrote on 7/23/2011, 5:54 AM

Sigh. Well, thanks, Kimberly, at least I am not going insane.

It looks like I did exactly what you did. My second set of steps, following your recipe, matched that workflow (which also seemed to get the same result as following the Make Movie Wizard).

But the fact that you are making a Blu-Ray in .AC3, which I thought other posts in hear says required DVDA Pro, makes me wonder if my DVDA version is not sufficient. FWIW, it didn't matter whether I chose .AC3 or stereo.

I have DVDA Architect Studio 5.0 (Build 128).

And the Match Media Settings did just ask for me to pick another media file to match the settings to, which I don't have (its my first project).

I guess my next step is calling support - bleah.

- Sean

SBR wrote on 7/23/2011, 5:56 AM

Also, Just to mention again, if I do all the same steps, but choos 1920x1080-60i for VMS and DVDA, DVDA does not complain that it needs to recompress.

Kimberly wrote on 7/23/2011, 7:08 AM

I am using Vegas Pro 10 and DVD-A Pro. I have VMS 9, but I don't have it loaded

Yesterday I read the help for DVD-A Studio and it did say something about AC3 not being available for BD in DVD-A Studio (I don't understand why they didn't include this, but oh well) but you can always choose some other audio format.

This is really perplexing.

What camera are you using?
What does the camera say it's giving you? 60i or 24p?
When you choose Match Media Settings in VMS, what does VMS tell you it is?
When you choose Render As, what BD template has the equals ( = ) after you have chosen Match Media Settings?
What version of VMS again?

I'm again asking because there must be something we have overlooked and once we figure it out, it will be one of those "oh duh" kinds of things.

SBR wrote on 7/25/2011, 5:06 AM

I'm actually not starting with a video. I'm creating a slideshow with pictures and music (see steps 1-4 of my initial post in this topic).

What I've tried doing is taking the project made in steps 1-4 and using a) Make Movie Wizard or b) your rendeing recipe, both to no avail.

I'm starting to suspect this is not an issue of the preliminary steps. I have the "=" sign I should get and everything else looks right, but DVDA simply says "24p not supported in this product" .... "product" not even "project"

I wonider if this is a just DVDA (from the Suite I bought) vs. DVDA Pro (buying the $500 Vegas Pro) issue... The website doesn't get into the details and particulars of what formats are supported, it just says you can make a blu-ray disk, which I can (and if I use 60i, DVDA won't even re-render).

But I'd love make it work if possible, so I'm willing to try anything :^)
And totally appreciate the help on this!

SBR wrote on 7/25/2011, 5:08 AM

Can VMS burn a blu-ray disc? I.e. can I make a simple blu-ray from a VMS project without DVDA? I know I can't get fancy menus, etc., but I've makde blu-rays with the Sony Picture Motion Browser that comes with cameras and camcorders.... so figure VMS might have some "lite" method of burning a blu-ray (like PMB).

- Sean

Steve Grisetti wrote on 7/25/2011, 5:18 AM

Yes, you can burn a DVD or BluRay directly from Vegas Movie Studio HD 11.

However, unlike discs burned from DVD Architect, these discs will be single-movie discs and will not include menus.

Kimberly wrote on 7/25/2011, 6:40 AM

@SBR:

What does the DVD-A on-line Help say about the formats it will process without recompression? I downloaded the manual in PDF in DVD-A 5.0, but it was skimpy on the details and said something to the effect of "see on-line Help for details."

Both the manual and on-line Help in DVD-A 5.2 (Pro) specifically list the formats that will run without recompression. Does the DVD-A 5.0 say this anywhere?

This bugs me almost as much as it's bugging you!

SBR wrote on 7/25/2011, 7:03 AM

I'll check the online help later after I get out of work....

You're right, the manuals are pretty pathetic. Almost more of a quick start guide than a legitimate manual.

- Sean

SBR wrote on 7/26/2011, 4:03 AM

Well, there is a section in the online help called "Recompression, Avoiding" but clicking on it doesn't bring you to anything on that topic.

Clicking on the other sections about recompression seems to indicate that I should be able to do this.

So does: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro10webinar02/qa

So I don't know at this point. Maybe try using a real 24p source video and see if that works (vs. a bug in making a 24p slideshow?).

SBR wrote on 7/26/2011, 6:37 AM

Looks like I'm not the only person with this issue at some point. Too bad none of the links came up with a solution. These are all people who tried to keep the settings DVDA friendly but came to the dreaded "24p not supported in this product" error.

http://www.sonytalk.com/24p-encoding-not-supported-this-product-t19256.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dvd-authoring/470356-dvd-architect-doesnt-support-24p-without-recompress-7d-workflow.html

http://www.sonytalk.com/wants-recompress-24p-mpeg2-t139774.html

This one seems incomplete. The underlying issue does not seem resolved...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/archive/index.php/t-244597.html

JS wrote on 8/1/2011, 4:16 PM

I haven't followed every detail of this thread, but it sounds like the problem is the same one I wrestled with--and solved--last year. The short answer: You need Vegas Pro. See this thread for the whole story:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=22&MessageID=733860

Also, you might find this useful: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=12&MessageID=756835

SBR wrote on 8/5/2011, 2:23 PM

Well, JS, that sadly confirms my suspicions. :^(

They certainly don't spell this out on the website where you purchase, that's for sure. I bought this thinking I could make Blu-Ray discs, but I didn't think I'd only be able to make certain types ...
and I don't even see anything in the Vegas Pro literature that says this is a feature you get over and above VMS and DVDA Studio.

SBR wrote on 8/18/2011, 3:51 PM

Well, Just to confirm JS's comment and officially answer Kimberly's frustration, here's the official response I got from tech support. 2 words, in my opinion: false advertising. I agree that you should get significan benefits from buying Pro. But they should be spelled out. The product I bought says it can Blu-Ray, which you can, but only if you choose certain types (that should have been noted).

-------------------

Hi Sean,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

Unfortunately, the render setting you refer to is only available in Vegas Pro 10. If you want to render to 1920x1080 24p 25Mbps, you may upgrade to Vegas Pro 10.0. Please also feel free to download a free 30-day trial version of Vegas Pro here:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/vegaspro.

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Michael D.
Customer Service
Sony Creative Software Inc
www.sonycreativesoftware.com