He wasn't referring to Liquid users switching to Vegas.

Registered Liquid users will for a limited time be able to get Avid MC (full) for $495.

Avid Media Composer is an outstanding NLE.

As I have said here for six years, it has the best cutting environment of all NLEs. Nothing gets in the way of your editing rhythm.

The included 3rd party products include more than $2,000 worth of tools: Boris RED (called Avid FX in the Avid version), Boris Continuum Complete AVX, Sonic DVD, Smartsound Sonicfire Pro, and Sorenson Squeeze (alas, V5 currently).

[AVX is Avid's plug-in API, so these tools work only inside Avid's software, but the integration is deeper than in other NLEs.)

The forum wasn't clear if Liquid upgraders got the full package for $495.00, but that is the package rate for those with a previous version of Media Composer.

I'm a registered Liquid user and I doubt I will bother. I like Vegas just fine and it handles avchd.... unlike MC

If you can do your work in Vegas, do the Liquid upgrade and sell your MC 4 license for say $1800, then spend the $1800-$495 on getting Boris RED/BCC/etc. to boost your Vegas work!

(Besides, MC can use Panasonic's free avchd-> P2 converter, which MC can then handle. Or just transfer to DNxHD on ingest.)

Details will be emailed to registered Liquid users. You must be registered by March 10 or you will be out of luck permanently. It is not known what all the parameters of this will be at the time.

I mentioned this in the first place because I know there some Liquid Users here know using Vegas that may not be checking the Liquid forums anymore.

"Avid Media Composer is an outstanding NLE."

Yes well.... been playing with the trial once again and it's still as I remember... outdated, outdated... OUTDATED.

Still have to convert just about everything you bring into it. M2T goes in directly but of couse AVI, MTS, M2TS, M2V yadda, yadda... still must be converted (or at least you must know a few tricks at fooling MC). That's okay if you're talking 30 or 40 clips, but to have to convert a few thousand... well that's a day or so.

Dual monitors still don't work with simple desktop extension

Oh and this I find real interesting.... MC still doesn't work with M-Audio (creative is suggested). Now I'm only playing with trial, but the full deal comes with ProTools I believe... which is M-Audio based... so how the heck does all that work????

Once you get everything on the time line and actually start editing it all seems interesting... but getting there is nothing short of a chore. The audio editing however isn't so great. I suppose that's why they offer ProTools in the first place.

Throw in the rather bad authoring programs (Avid dvd/DVDitPRO HD) and even at 495 I question its value.

Vegas has a real problem with preview quality/speed as compared to MC and Sony will HAVE TO properly address that in the near future... but as far as I'm concerned... Vegas is still the best deal in town.

Ron,

You've had more problems with Avid MC, than anyone else I know.

What seemed "outdated" to you was a welcome change for me. Avid moves like an editor. And yes, you need to transcode into it, just like Final Cut. There are good reasons for this. If you're cutting 5 minute youtube videos, this isn't your product. If you are cutting shows where the ingest is negligible compared to the editing, then the transcode is nothing.

Converting everything to a known codec allows Avid, FCP, Edius, and other similar applications to optimize memory, timeline speed, etc. This is why they are all WORLDS faster than Premiere and Vegas.

As for dual monitors, I have no idea what you mean. I used mine with three monitors just fine. And I've watched others using MC with 2-3 heads just the same.

I didn't play with M-Audio integration during my trial, but maybe that's a real issue, maybe not. I can't say.

The Authoring programs aren't included in the trial, so I don't know how you are able to say they are bad. Did you buy a recent version of them?

Avid and Vegas are very different. You seem to want to find any reason to say that Vegas is superior. OK, that's fine. I think each one has some great advantages and some pitfalls. I just want to use the tool that gets the work done for me. I can do everything in Avid that I can do in Vegas. Some of it takes more steps. But there is no way possible I can do some of the things in Vegas that I can do in Avid. Nor would I expect to given the feature set and price of the Avid suite.


By the way, what machine are you doing this Avid trial on, and is it Avid certified?

"Converting everything to a known codec allows Avid, FCP, Edius, and other similar applications to optimize memory, timeline speed, etc. This is why they are all WORLDS faster than Premiere and Vegas."
Throw in the time it takes to convert a few thousand clips (and the quality loss in some cases) and it is certainly NOT faster.

"I didn't play with M-Audio integration during my trial, but maybe that's a real issue, maybe not. I can't say."

[url=http://community.avid.com/forums/t/81016.aspx]

"The Authoring programs aren't included in the trial, so I don't know how you are able to say they are bad. Did you buy a recent version of them?"

I already own DVDitPRO HD
... and recent version??? Unless I've badly missed an update somewhere they haven't put out a "recent version" in lord knows how long. Is Roxio even still alive???

"By the way, what machine are you doing this Avid trial on, and is it Avid certified?"

Yes.
My quadro is certainly not top of the line but it is within specs.
I'm running both XP (on disk image) and windows7 64bit.
(I did find the dual monitor issue so that's no longer an issue)

Although Avid is not certified for windows 7, it does seem to work.

BTW... there are LOTS of things Vegas can do that Avid can't as well so I kind of discount that statement.

So I ask again... what machine are you running this on? I brought in probably 15 hours of material during the scope of my trial. Didn't seem to bother me too much. But then I do shoot with XDCamEX most of the time which loads via AMA if desired. And I guarantee if you are using XDCam/XDCamEX or P2, your workflow can be MUCH faster than in Vegas.

And what loss of quality are you talking about? Are you shooting uncompressed? RED? Because I can't think of a single camera under $100k (save for the RED and maybe the Viper) that DNxHD 220x or 185 wouldn't be good enough to handle.

But this is all immaterial. You have your feelings and some of them are certainly well founded. I have mine based on my needs and uses.

Maybe you'd be happier with Edius...

"BTW... there are LOTS of things Vegas can do that Avid can't as well so I kind of discount that statement. "

Such as? And I don't mean audio.

I run xbx2 mobo, 12 gig ram, q6600 quad, fx580 vid card, dual 26" widescreen monitors, 3.5TB drive space, Both creative and M-audio sound cards, LG Blu Ray writer. I usually run windows7 64 bit, but have disk images of XP and vista as well. Do you need more detail?


Why not include audio???? We're no longer in the silent movie era... audio is pretty important.... well maybe not according to MC :)

I can ingest avchd in the form of MTS, M2TS (which sometimes includes 5.1 sound) directly to the time line and smart render it out for starters... no conversions necessary

"Maybe you'd be happier with Edius...

Huh?
Why would I want edius?? As already stated I'm quite happy with Vegas. Only reason I'm looking at MC in the first place is that I can take it home for $495.

"The forum wasn't clear if Liquid upgraders got the full package for $495.00, but that is the package rate for those with a previous version of Media Composer"

It has now been made clear... it's the FULL package.

MC
Avid DVD
Avid effects
Boris Continuum Complete
SmartSound Sonicfire Pro
Sorenson Squeeze

OMG that's a STEAL!! Squeeze alone is that price.

It's no deal if you're not going to use it.
I've played with the trial for a while now and it is a good program, but you get slowed down something awful with all of the converting. MC doesn't support avchd at all. My guess though is that MC5 will have the support since enough people have complained about this.

The Audio editing in Vegas BTW is much better. MC is good at pure video editing. VERY smooth preview...something that Sony REALLY NEEDS to think about.... but everything else (authoring.... audio... etc) is a bit second rate (IMO).

That's because Media Composer is an editor. It isn't meant to be an all-everything like Vegas is. This is like saying Vegas has it all over Final Cut because Vegas has a 3-wheel color corrector and FCP has only 2, like Vegas Movie Studio... and ignoring that FCP comes with Color.

These are two VERY different apps, aimed at to VERY different markets. People buy FCP for Color, people buy CS4 for After Effects, and people buy Avid to cut video. You want to work on sound, get ProTools. Vegas's built in audio editing is better. Everything about cutting video in Avid is better in my view. Compare effects. Even the native stuff in Avid is better. When you add Boris, it's no contest. Squeeze was better in my view than the render stuff available in Vegas, but not so much better to make me really drool over it.

Vegas is MUCH faster to use if you are using consumer codecs and need fast turn around. The shoe is on the other foot if you are working with XDCam, DVCProHD, AVC-Intra, etc.

Yeah, but if you ae going to go all the way and spend money to get the best than neither FCP suite, nor AVID will give you that.

Vegas is far better at audio and you don't really need pro tools if you have vegas. As for video cutting, AVID may have some slight advantages, but not much, so Vegas + a real compositor like Fusion is still the best of all worlds. And that's what I've been saying all along. Suites like FCP and AVID cram a whole bunch of second rate apps into a package that can barely outperform Vegas alone ( and that's on VIDEO front only ).

So since you can do almost all that + audio in Vegas alone anyway, and do it fast, there is really no logic in wasting more money on those. If Fusion is too expensive, you are still better off with Vegas and after effects than with either of those two ( FCP suite or AVID ).

Media composer for $495 yes, but full price for that or FCP is way too much for a bunch of 1/2 assed apps thrown together.

Ok, we have a difference of opinion, and I am comfortable with that.

Well,
Going to have to rethink this MC4 offer once again. Avid has up-ed the anti yet again. If Liquid users buy at the bargain price of $495, they will get a free upgrade to MC5 (coming soon). Avid has already posted some of the new highlights. New drag and drop approach to the time line, direct avchd import, red import has been updated, and they've opened the door to the party hardware vendors.... the matrix mini will now work with the new mc5.