i've had two instances of black frames on the timeline in about 10 hours of timeline work, so compared to the problem in v7, that's a vast improvement. however, they still caused me a fair degree of grief....

as did the print to tape - if you use 'no-recompress' it apparently DOESN'T give a valid file for ptt, turn it off and no problem with a rerender. but why should i have to either render the same project twice, or feel that 'no-recompress' is missing something?

leslie

My timeline consists of mabye 65% stills, jpegs hi res. and the remainder m2t orig files from my FX-1. the drop outs always seem to occur in the area of stills, usually right before during or after a disolve. I have tried reducing resolution way down on the stills , no luck.
My work around after 6 hrs of different trials is to render each section to HDV 720 30p m2t's they render just fine that way.My orig project is HDV 60i.this works ok for now as the final result is DVD but i always want my master video in the highest res for archive.
I love Vegas and am not thinking of jumping ship either, its just frustrating when your production time doubles due to these issues.

edit this was an accidental repost due to the forum error page coming up. Just have to laugh at this one ......

What I'm wondering is just how many users are experiencing this problem - there has to be some kind of common denominator since it appears specific users are having this issue, while others not a peep.

Having just made the move to HDV myself, I'm a little concerned over this ongoing issue - I can't afford to lose time (which equates to money) due to a known issue that was already present in the previous version.

I sure don't want to have to consider moving back to Adobe bloatware...

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt

im just curious if this issue happens with XDCam... i doubt it though considering XDCam is variable while HDV is constant.

One thing though, is there a way you can check to see where these dropped/black frames are?? Is it on an I frame?

Good question, I know on a couple of trys it happens in the same place on the T/L on a few of the regions I was rendering.
I also was wondering if it had to do with maybe a plug in causing it.
I was thinking of posting a list of plugs I have installed as maybe we can compare.
Its strange though ,as others have said people like DSE dont have the issue yet I can imagine they have 10x the plugs I do.

Is it feasible to try to reproduce the black frames on a very small project? In other words, if you take the project which generates the black frames, and whittle the length down from either end until you have, say, a 30 sec T/L centered around the problem, then we could more easily diagnose the issue, maybe.

However, if removing assets from the T/L that are nowhere near the black-frames area causes the problem to go away - or shortening a long T/L from the end causes the black-frames in the middle to disappear, then that would also be useful - if frustrating - information.

double post....gotta love this glacially slow website.

well I did try cut and pasting the region from one veg to a new veg. So all other events were not even present. same black frames in basicaly the same area.
I then even took the newly rendered m2t, placed it above the orig media, split it at the black frames, and trimmed each event a bout 1 sec before and after then rendered with the orig media below "sometimes" it came out ok , other same black frames.

So, if you now have a mere 3 second T/L that generates black frames (intermittently?), the job of isolating the cause might be within reach. Though, admittedly, it will still take some time-consuming detective work. One goal would be to create a version of this T/L that generates the black frames without fail. If you get there, I'll bet someone on this forum could take that project and assets and nail the problem - or at least its cause

soon as I get this project completed (that I'm behind sched on).
I think i might put a folder with the veg and media of the region i am having issues with on my site so that others may d/l and see if they get the Black frames.

yesterday I captured a 4-min. video from tape in my HC-1 using HDVsplit, with no black frames when opened in Vegas. I edited out a minute or so, perhaps 4 cuts, and rendered to HDV and got a number of black frames at several places, complete with about a 2- or 3sec. audio dropout at each.

So I re-captured from tape again - this time capturing about 30 seconds shorter than before - then edited again and rendered to HDV (smart rendering, like before). Still got a bunch of black frames. I gave up and rendered to cineform .AVI - no problem except very large file size.

I'm surprised, for I rarely have had black frame problems, and I don't remember any audio dropouts ever (but I rarely render to HDV, so can't say for sure). Since my last good HDV render I replaced the Core2duo e6400 with a quad q6600 and updated the bios on my Asus P5B. My suspicion is that this seemingly minimal hardware upgrade messed up my Vegas.

"My timeline consists of mabye 65% stills, jpegs hi res. and the remainder m2t orig files from my FX-1. the drop outs always seem to occur in the area of stills, usually right before during or after a disolve. I have tried reducing resolution way down on the stills , no luck."

and

"So I re-captured from tape again - this time capturing about 30 seconds shorter than before - then edited again and rendered to HDV (smart rendering, like before). Still got a bunch of black frames."

From my experience, what Sony would need to be able to address that is a repro - so, if you are able to generate a small project that shows that behaviour, Sony should be able to fix that.

Could be a project of two or three stills only, or of a small HDV piece. If you could prepare that as a download, both project file and the source files, that would be the best way to adress that. But I do not know if you are willing to prepare that, and give us a download link.

www.yousendit.com

is a free website you could load the file to and then leave the link back here for us to use

I will upload it on my site its not a prob. I am just finishing the project up and will do it tomorrow. Funny thing is I am doing this project and another along side it. Both projects are now HDV 720 30p, i can render, prerender all day long any size section, any length, no recompress on or off. No black frames. All same source material all hi res stills, (8mp) and std NTSC 1080 HDV m2t (native capture) .

Maybe other with this issue can confirm that it does NOT occur in that resolution only in 1080i rendering.

I will post my problem section tomorrow and post the link here.

I opened up the troublesome source file and made a few cuts and rendered - thinking I'd post the troublesome source + the new .veg (I didn't save yesterday's .veg) - but I didn't get a single black frame.

So I thought maybe I had other programs running yesterday. I opened a very complicated .veg in another instance of Vegas, along with Photoshop, VMware's Browser-Appliance (Linux virtual machine), and a USB HDTV over-the-air tuner and put it on the local PBS station and tried again - and no black frames. I tried with other source .m2t files, but all rendered flawlessly no matter what I did; out of a dozen or so renders, not one single flaw.

I did notice that the Performance tab of Windows Task Monitor showed that the Q6600 was loaded about 50% up to 65% or so, and I'm pretty sure that yesterday the load was around 40%; but why? I'm without a clue.

Thank you for your willingness to share repros with us. Even if I understand, that it seems hard to generate such repros! Wait for your download adress.

So here we are, 6 months down the track from this:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=532141

and if I'm reading the current situation correctly V8 has fixed the problem, it's no longer dependant on Dynamic RAM review, it's just permanantly broken. If it wasn't so painful to read anything off this site these days I'd go back and check where it got to six months ago with V7 but from memory, it went nowhere, SCS never seem to have acknowledged or addressed the issue.
This whole problem goes way back before V7 although back then before HDV the symptoms seemed a bit different so maybe it is a new problem with the same outcome.

Bob.

I just now hit this problem, shot video at 60i HDV, captured in HDVsplit, looked good - until I started editing. Black frames started popping up at several places, no rhyme or reason.
REALLY slows down production, the little "jump" you get at the black frame spot is quite hard to fix. I've spent hours on a 10 minute, 2 cam video.
I've been searching the forum for this as I recalled seeing some posts, anything new going on that anyone knows about, like Sony has it fixed in 8C?

daryl - it surprises me that you saw black frames even in your edited original HDVsplit capture files. I always capture with HDVsplit, and NEVER once have I seen a black frame until I rendered something out in HDV format (which I never do now that I've had so many problems - I always choose another codec/format)

Boy I used to run into the two black frames problem all the time, but I haven't lately. Maybe it's because I'm shooting to compact flash instead of tape with my new Z7. I know that going tapeless seems to have fixed the random HDV crashing I was getting. Has anyone run into the two black frame problem when using tapeless HDV acquisition?

Also. has anyone run into the two black frame problem when using Cineform instead of native m2t?