For the Sony Team -- V5: First Impressions/Questions/Comments

vitamin_D wrote on 4/19/2004, 8:22 AM
Hey Gang,

I have to say first off that the new track motion and compositing functions alone look like the evidence of many sleepless nights for a lot of you -- hats off and thanks for the update. You have my credit card at the ready :D

I d/l'd the trial this morning and with it, the manual and the new features paper I spent some time familiarizing myself with what's new. Here are some thoughts, and I welcome others to follow suit:

I'll start with my one gripe to get it out of the way --

The new look: I have to say I don’t spend much of my time thinking about what my NLE buttons and window edges look like, and for a time I didn’t foresee having to care. If Vegas got skinning – great – if not, I’m not worried. That said, now I see how detracting an image can be. What was before a simple, clean interface is now Hello Kitty Video Editing. At the least I'd suggest a preset for "Vegas Classic," ala 4.0, or my hope is that you've opened up the look of Vegas to custom skins and I've either missed that function entirely or hopefully it will make an appearance in an update. Many of us have in one way or another clamored to try to get Vegas recognized as being more than a mere toy, but this look is a step in the wrong direction in that regard. I think something in muted, cool temperature tones – blues, greys, brushed silvers and blacks – would really look impressive and quiet a lot of the UI critics. Please?


My applause and some questions:

Snappiness: the UI seems to be responding quicker. Has the UI code been significantly changed or am I imagining things? Nice details like the new scrub tool and reverse are welcome additions.

Rendering: Some have reported their SMP boxes hitting 100% on both processors – well that’s new. What changes were made to the rendering engine (other than the obvious -- i.e. networking)? Will we be able -- in 5.0a or a later update -- mark a region on the timeline and send it out for network rendering while simultaneously working on the same timeline?

Subclips and nested sequences: I'm not sure I understand nesting as well as I should – skimming the white paper section about this hurt my head this morning – is this a true nesting that you see in other NLE’s (ala PPro)?

That undo list: wow! Thank you!

Automation controls look very cool, and seem to be a new workflow. Will there be a way, through scripting for instance, to impose automation presets on media – sorta like what Apple is touting as “behavioral” presets in Motion?


Thanks -- I'm sure by day's end I'll have a few more :D

- jim

Comments

filmy wrote on 4/19/2004, 8:33 AM
I agree with the "nesting" concept - already confusion is out there. I had heard that the ability to nest was part of Version 5 but I don't see that is - I see that the ability to take a clip and give it a subclip is there - but this is not the same as nesting on a project level. Or is it hidden somewhere that I am just not seeing?

Hello Kitty interface...LOL!. I can agree with this point a bit.

So can Vegas, or can it not, work with HDV (input/output)? If someone has about 30 grand to put out for the Sony HDCAM J-H3 deck the vibe is you can dump out HD material via firewire (with pulldown support no less), but I can't find any such mention about outputting to D-VHS or HDV via firewire. Is this something that can be done but is only going to be announced when Sony comes out with thier HDV cameras and decks?

One of the more subtle things I really like - Pulldown flags are set on the footage (in the media pool, right click> file format properties> Enable 2-3 pulldown removal, starting timecode = 0).

Cool beans!

Just a P.S on the HD support - one of those true but misleading things. On the one hand - Vegas can edit and 'output' HD material. ("High Definition editing and output <= NEW" is how they word it) On the other you can now use the J-H3 deck. So one could put it together and as you can output HD material via firewire. As I said above "the vibe is". Well - here is more detailed info that you sort of have to dig for -

Capture HDCAM originated footage as downconverted DVCAM directly from the JH-3 deck over i.LINK connector/IEEE-1394. Create DVCAM downconvert proxies, with support for PAL, NTSC, 4:3/16:9, 3:2 pulldown removal and original 24p timecode tracking and export 24p EDLs.

Ahhhhhh...downcoverted. Still cool however.

PS to the PS - ok, so now they have updated the overall info to read J-H3 HDCAM player support for DV downconverts <=NEW
vitamin_D wrote on 4/19/2004, 8:44 AM
Yeah...

Calling the composite function "nesting" seems a miscalculation. There's the rest of the world's nesting, and now Vegas has its version.

Glad you're picking up on these other details and willing to share them. I just had some fun pitch-shifting a scene and...well, it's yet another thing that makes editing in Vegas fun.

- jim
mark2929 wrote on 4/19/2004, 8:51 AM
As an Editing Program Vegas 4 is Brilliant What I see now Is some Bold New Initiatives for the Future.. It reminds me Of the Star Trek Films WHERE Kirk gets a New Enterprise... I think We are Boldly Going Where No other Editing Program has gone before. Well... Bezier Wise anyway.. And new Versions will be set to warp speed 6
Grazie wrote on 4/19/2004, 8:59 AM
Steady on Mark! "Make it So!" - G
Randy Brown wrote on 4/19/2004, 9:00 AM
Woohoo!
I just woke up to all this but have a client coming shortly and won't be able to check out V5 until tomorrow. My quick question is, are there any improvements to the media pool (ie being able to rename clips).
TIA,
Randy
kentwolf wrote on 4/19/2004, 9:08 AM
>>...Hello Kitty Video Editing...

That *is* pretty funny.

My thoughts, exactly, however, I could not have come up with that phraseology. :)

Good one!
craftech wrote on 4/19/2004, 9:09 AM
Intentional double post:

In other words,
1. DVDA 1.0 was considered a premature release by virtually everyone on the forums.
2. DVDA 2.0 is a big improvement, but to get it I must:

A. Buy Vegas 5.0 along with it
B. Upgrade to Windows XP or Windows 2000
C. Upgrade my computer or buy another one to handle the "upgrade".

No thanks. I'll buy a different encoder.

John
JJKizak wrote on 4/19/2004, 10:00 AM
Filmy:
With the HDV thing I was dissappointed also but I got to wondering if they were doing something in cahoots with Cineform to edit the stuff in AVI and thats why they might be delaying this side of it.

JJK
Nat wrote on 4/19/2004, 10:21 AM
I like the GUI!

The one thing I don't like is the new timestretching tools, it was more straigtforward in the old version.
Jsnkc wrote on 4/19/2004, 10:25 AM
I'm wondering if the "Boxed Version"

1- Will actually be in a box?
2- Will come with a full printed manual, or just a .pdf of it on the CD?

If not I need to send my .pdf manual to Kinkos again!
vitamin_D wrote on 4/19/2004, 11:02 AM
Hmm...I see that with a single license to Vegas 5 I get to render to two other machines. Question, then: what happens when I buy 2 upgrades (at the reduced, promo price)? Will this afford me more machines, or do I have to purchase Vegas 5 separately at the street price?

Also -- in the above scenario, is my main machine rendering along with the other two, or just acting as a file server, or...?

- jim
chaboud wrote on 4/19/2004, 11:46 AM
Regarding the Hello-Kitty interface:

Go to Options->Preferences->Display and cut down the icon saturation and tint. I run mine around 15%.

Vegas 5 has added multiple compositing levels. Think of this as Vegas 4's Parent/Child compositing model with limitless depth.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/19/2004, 11:54 AM
you *CAN* rename things in the pool. :)

TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/19/2004, 11:57 AM
Nice (about the saturation). However, I liked the "old" icons better. Oh well. I'll adjust. :)
SonyPJM wrote on 4/19/2004, 12:00 PM
You can't upgrade the same copy of a previous version of Vegas more than once.

Your "main" installation of Vegas (running on your editing machine) will participate in newtork renders (unless you disable it in the render service app) so in effect you get 3 renderers per license.

If you buy a second "full" copy of Vegas you can have 6 renderers (with two full edit machines).

If you really want to "go big", site licenses are the best way to go.
ricklaut wrote on 4/19/2004, 12:02 PM
I've got a related question - With V4, installing on two computers was allowed as long as they aren't used at the same time (i.e. my desktop (primary) and my laptop (while traveling)). Is this still permissible?

Rick
roger_74 wrote on 4/19/2004, 12:41 PM
And if you're using XP you can just enable the Windows Classic theme to get rid of the colorful scrollbars. That together with low icon saturation should please the nay-sayers.
SonyPJM wrote on 4/19/2004, 1:14 PM
Yes. It is still possible to install the "full" version on more than one machine as long as they're not used at the same time.

But the second installation cannot be used for network renders.
ricklaut wrote on 4/19/2004, 1:17 PM
Perfect! Thanks, Sony PJM!

Rick