for those familiar with Cubendo, monitoring question

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/21/2003, 6:44 PM
In Cubase and Nuendo, there are different styles of input monitoring. One of which is " tape style " that works just as auto input would in the real world. My question is, does tape style only work in ASIO DM or does it work in the " other " asio model?

If it is possible without DM, might it be possible to do this in vegas?

Comments

pwppch wrote on 1/21/2003, 8:25 PM
I want your definition of tape style first, then I will answer your question.

Peter
PipelineAudio wrote on 1/21/2003, 10:44 PM
When a track is unarmed:
Tape feeds output regardless of transport condition

When a track is armed:
During stop input feeds the output
During Rewind and Fast Forward input feeds the output
During Playback tape feeds the output
During Record input feeds the output

During a Punch:
Until the punch in point, tape feeds the output
At the punch in point, input feeds the output, until
At the punch out point, where tape again feeds the output

heres some not so hypothetical situations

I want to treat vegas as a tape recorder during tracking, so
I set up 24 stereo output busses. Assign the first 2 stereo pairs of busses to the same outputs, pull down the right fader of buss A, pull down the left fader of buss B, send channel 1 to aux buss A ,send channel 2 to aux Buss B ( I use aux so that I may also send to Vegas' strereo master buss). Set the other 22 pairs the same way.

Now lets say I want to record a guitar on channel 1, but only want to record a clean signal to tape, for reamping later. First lets say I am using UA's Nigel, or Dsound's distortion or amplitube or whatever, in the track insert of channel 1, so the guitarist can hear some distortion.

off topic, using the parameter automation I can change from clean to distortion at the appropriate measure automatically!!!! SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so during recording, guitar goes in, guitarist hears his playing, thru a simulated amp sound ( hopefully latency is low enough to not screw him up). Great.
Now listening back, we hear amplitube, sounds good except one little section.

So we gotta punch. While playing up to the punch in spot, both the recorded guitar and the new guitar can be heard. Anyone who plays a guitar knows, two different notes going IN to an amp is WAY different than the sound of 2 different notes, on two different tracks. A chord distorts way different than a single note, different enough to totally screw up the guitar player, in effect two guitarists playing thru the same amp. ( note to those who suggst workarounds, NO WAY am I gonna keep on copying tracks with fx like this on them, its buggy enough as it is with the 24 output busses)

I could feed the output of the DAC channel 1 to an amp, but the same thing will happen

Some vocalists get weirded out hearing both voices too.
PipelineAudio wrote on 1/23/2003, 12:54 PM
so is it possible to " emulate" this style with ASIo the way it is? or maybe even MME ? I dont mean to do it hardware style, because that would mean giving up monitoring fx, which I am now hooked on, and require ASIO DM
Rednroll wrote on 1/23/2003, 2:15 PM
The answer is to, use external hardware like an external mixing board along with something like a Line6 Pod. You could send the musician the distorted signal from the POD for monitoring through the mixing board( zero latency issues). The POD also has a direct out, therefore you record a dry signal and the distorted signal simultaneously in Vegas, by routing to 2 busses on your mixing board to your sound card. You're also cutting down on the system requirements, because you're cutting down on the overhead in Vegas, due to a lot of this processing is happening on external harderware. Later you can take that dry signal and run it through any amp similutor plugin you desire, or to another amplifier and record that....so on..and so fourth.

Oh wait...I'm sorry. I don't record music for a living, and wouldn't know anything about this. I keep forgetting that fact.

My apologees,
Red
pwppch wrote on 1/23/2003, 4:25 PM
What we do is as follows:

If you are playing while armed, you will get both the input and the track contribution always.

When you are armed and not playing you will only get the input.

If you have a punch in record set up in Vegas - i.e. an event selected to "record into" - any audio prior to the punch in event on that track will be played. As soon as the event to record into is hit, you will only hear the new monitored audio.

So you get:

During a Punch:
Until the punch in point, track feeds the output
At the punch in point, input feeds the output, until
At the punch out point, where track again feeds the output

What we don't do is permit you to "auto mute" during playback. You will always monitor input unless you are recording and have an event set up for punch in/out.

Peter
PipelineAudio wrote on 1/23/2003, 5:26 PM
yeah rednroll I cant think of why I shouldnt double my track count...
Rednroll wrote on 1/23/2003, 6:32 PM
Where are you doubling your track count? You don't have to record the distorted signal if you don't want too. I thought you might be able to figure that one out all by yourself....You've proved me wrong again.
PipelineAudio wrote on 1/23/2003, 6:56 PM
Id have to record the distorted signal if I wanted to hear the SAME distorted signal back. WHY are you so against auto input?
Rednroll wrote on 1/24/2003, 8:55 AM
It's replies like this, is that I have to say you don't own an external mixing board, like you say you do....or you just don't know how to use it. Which is pretty surprising for someone who claims to "record music for a living" and "his name is credited all over the place" like YOU say. Did you ever wonder what those "Aux sends" where for on your mixing board? It's so you can have one FX's unit and bus many other signals to it. Why don't you come out and admit it....you don't record music for a living...you clean the toilets at some studio and get to occassional turn the knobs on the console, when you're wiping the dust off of it. You don't own an external mixing board at home, because toilet cleaners only make $5/hr and you can't afford one. You've downloaded a cracked version of Vegas. Thus, that's the reason you're always asking for these auto-input features, which you don't need if you have an external mixer and know how to use it. The only reason you know the word SMPTE, is because you've seen your boss use it during automated mixes, and you happen to be bringing him coffee at that time.

Don't make me have to embarrass you anymore, because you don't know how to use a mixing board. Just come out and tell everyone, you clean toilets for a living.
PipelineAudio wrote on 1/24/2003, 9:41 AM
I dont see why its OK for you to ask for stuff but not me. I see you kickin up a storm about midi control, and I agree, but that doesnt mean Im wrong asking about this. I dont tell you how to install car stereos, so please dont tell me how to record albums.

There is no argument that auto input is the professional's first choice in monitoring 99% of the time, when making a studio album. You CANT argue with that. Find me an engineer who doesnt work that way. Yeah, Ill do this function on a mixer...lets see grow 30 more hands so I can mute in a split second then unmute. Oh no, thats right in car stereo land the client LIKES to hear both paths at once right?