Frameserving to TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress CCIR601 problem

ScorpioProd wrote on 9/12/2009, 2:21 AM
I use the debugmode frameserver all the time to send my Vegas Pro 8 or 9 projects to TMPGEnc Plus 2.5. And it always works great. One of the important settings when frameserving from Vegas to it is the "Output YUV data as basic YCbCr, not CCIR601" setting on the Quantize Matrix page which needs to be enabled to get the correct contrast range and color when frameserving from Vegas. What this tells TMPGEnc is that the video is in Studio RGB space, or as the help file for this setting says:

"Enabling this cause the 8-bit value for the components to be of a value between 0 and 255 in YCbCr, and not the CCIR601 values of 16 to 235."

So my question is, where is this setting in TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress??? I want to get this new version for some of the new features they've added, but so far I can not find that setting anywhere in the program. And without it, my tests on the trial version of the program have the contrast range and colors coming out wrong.

Does anyone know where this setting is in TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress?

Thanks.

Comments

ScorpioProd wrote on 9/14/2009, 1:56 PM
Well, I heard back from TMPGEnc's customer support.

They told me there is no such setting in TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress.

So does this mean everyone using the frameserver with Vegas to TMPGEnc is using the old TMPGEnc 2.5? It must be the case without that setting in 4.0.

If anyone has found a way to use Vegas via the frameserver to TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress, please post.

Thanks.
Erik Olson wrote on 9/14/2009, 5:51 PM
How about doing the conversion in-script, a la

AVISource("c:\foo.avi")
ConvertToYV12(matrix="pc.709")

Don't know if TMPG 4.0 will take YV12 as an input, so might need an extra
ConvertToRGB24()
at the end to flip it back.
Former user wrote on 9/15/2009, 6:38 AM
I have searched and searched for a fix for this. From what I can tell, you have to use the Color Corrector within Xpress to change to the correct values. But there is not an easy way to tell if you have done this correctly. I went back to 2.5 because of this.

Xpress seems to assume that all video is brought in at 0ire black and it renders to 7.5ire black.

Dave T2
ScorpioProd wrote on 9/15/2009, 1:09 PM
It's a shame, TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress looks like it could have been a cool application to use. I've replied back to TMPGEnc customer service asking about workarounds. I mentioned how there are a lot of Sony Vegas Pro users that currently frameserve to TMPGEnc 2.5, and we need this setting to ever upgrade to 4.0. So it's in their interest to have a way for this to work.

I experimented with the Color Corrector in XPress as you did, and you're right, I couldn't figure out a setting, either. More importantly, when I did this, and compared my rendered output to the equivalent done through TMPGEnc 2.5, with all settings that could be the same, the same; I found that the TMPGEnc 4.0 encode showed ringing along color edges that the TMPGEnc 2.5 encode didn't, implying to me that the color corrector way of fixing it was degrading the image more than what the settings switch in TMPGEnc 2.5 did.

For the response suggesting a scripting solution, I'm not sure where one would put the script that was suggested, in what program, in order for it to work with the frameserver... Plus I would worry about the same issue of too many color corrections affecting quality.
ScorpioProd wrote on 9/19/2009, 12:11 AM
I heard back from TMPGEnc customer service again. The good news is using the color corrector in TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress, pick YUV, and select "CCIR601 Expansion". Then slide the chroma and luma sliders to 255. This will do the equivalent to the setting check box in TMPGEnc 2.5, and I have confirmed this on the scopes with the output.

So that's cool. But unfortunately, the ringing I am seeing along color boundaries when I send color bars through is still there, looking really bad compared to sending color bars through TMPGEnc 2.5. And this is NOT due to the frameserver or the color correction filter, since I have tested with uncompressed AVI clips directly as well, same results.

TMPGEnc customer service thinks there must be something wrong with my settings, so I've sent them what my settings are and await a reply.

So far, TMPGEnc 2.5 looks like it generates superior MPEG-2 to TMPGEnc 4.0.

If anyone else has TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress and can put through some color bars quick, see if you have major ringing on color boundaries.

Thanks.
Former user wrote on 9/19/2009, 6:14 AM
I will give it a try and let you know. But I agree, 2.5 seems to work better overall.

I think, like other software, it is getting full of fluff and losing its sustance.

Dave T2