Future of Sony Media Software?

jwcarney wrote on 12/18/2005, 11:46 AM
Lately it seems Sony Media software is changing itself into a reseller instead of a pro video division. Adding third party software like Bauhaus Softwares' Mirage and Corel Paint Shop Pro.

Mirage has some nifty features if you are an animator, or want an effects app that has excellent video painting options...but AE or Combustion it aint.

Any thoughts on how all this could affect Vegas in the long term?

Lately the only thing Sony seems to be doing well is making enemies. Like their incredibly stupid decision not to include support for h.264 and vc-1 codecs on Blue Ray.

Don't take this as I'm going to abandon Vegas, just have some questions as a long time customer.

Comments

Jøran Toresen wrote on 12/18/2005, 12:46 PM
In which application does Sony Media Software add Bauhaus Software’s' Mirage?

Joran
winrockpost wrote on 12/18/2005, 12:50 PM
SAN ANTONIO, TX and MADISON, WI – November 30 , 2005 – Sony Media Software and Bauhaus Software today announced a new co-marketing relationship to offer Bauhaus Software’s flagship product, Mirage Studio, to the ever-growing Sony professional/prosumer customer base. By combining Sony’s expertise in video and audio production tools with Bauhaus’ creative motion graphics and animation production software environment, Sony customers can now take advantage of a powerful and complete new content creation and post production solution. blah ,blah ,blah

Steve Mann wrote on 12/18/2005, 1:46 PM
Somehow, I miss your point.

Mirage is a compositing program that can compete with Combustion or After Effects - where do you think it falls short? Wouldn't you like to see Sony offer a compositing program integrated into the Vegas package?

Don't forget that Sony was a Vegas reseller under the Studio label long before Sony bought the operation from Sound Forge.

Steve
TheHappyFriar wrote on 12/18/2005, 2:22 PM
i don't get how this spells disaster for SMS in any way... they copy/paste some new stuff in to their catalog. User always complained (being nice... not saying "whined like babys" that they never had any other products to go along with the SMS line. Now they do.

I don't care what they put in the catalog/website. I do care that I get 7-8 catalogs a year because I've registered with two different e-mails, but the more the marrier.
jwcarney wrote on 12/19/2005, 11:05 AM
what happend to my second post?
Anyway, Mirage is fine, I was just trying to see what people are thinking lately about Sony in general and SMS in particular.

John_Cline wrote on 12/19/2005, 11:23 AM
From all indications, Sony Media Software is cruising right along. Everyone in Madison is still showing up for work, Vegas, Acid, DVDA and SF Code is being written, the forums are still up and everything seems to be fine. I'm not the least bit concerned.

John
umim wrote on 12/19/2005, 4:46 PM
Did any1 tried SONY's Customer support or Tech. Support? They don't care! ...the forums are still up and everything seems to be fine... REALY? Go ahed and count all those complains. How many of those SONY addressed?
John_Cline wrote on 12/19/2005, 5:51 PM
Perhaps you have a point. I've never had any reason to contact Sony's customer or tech support.

John
Chienworks wrote on 12/19/2005, 5:56 PM
I've contacted them precisely 3 times. Each time was in reference to activating older SonicFoundry software that is no longer officially supported. Each time i was speaking to a live human within a minute or two of dialing the toll-free number, and each time they had my software activated and running within a minute.

So, by me so far, customer support rates 100%.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 12/19/2005, 6:49 PM
the online support has suffered since they transfered to sony. Besides that, i'd say they're still all good.
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/19/2005, 6:56 PM
Not that it falls to me to defend the customer support team, but they are indeed, very, very good. However, when it was just Sonic Foundry, they only had a few products to support. Now, they have a tremendous number of low-end consumer offerings, and some exceptionally high-end product offerings for products that most of us don't know about. No excuse if folks feel like they're not getting answers, but...I do know they're doing the best they can. But I also recognize that they're time-challenged, because we get several tech support calls a day at VASST for various Sony products. (No, we don't do tech support)
farss wrote on 12/19/2005, 8:48 PM
"and some exceptionally high-end product offerings for products that most of us don't know about."

OK, I'll bite.
If most of us don't know about them then they're really falling down on the job, aren't they?
Perhaps someone would care to fill us in on what we might care to buy if we knew we could, or is Vegas so low-end in the Sony scheme of things that we're not worthy to wash the feet of those who do use them?

Or have I read this all wrong, has some of the other Sony stuff been dropped into Madisons lap?

Bob.
p@mast3rs wrote on 12/19/2005, 8:54 PM
Yeah dish it Spot. Inquiring minds want to know :)
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/19/2005, 9:08 PM
Bob hit the nail on the head. There are now other software tools that they're having to support. It's not secret, but very surprised we've not seen much about it on the Sony website. This is one that I know for sure is public.
A press release can be seen here
TheHappyFriar wrote on 12/19/2005, 9:09 PM
ok, I should clear up what i said. The support responce time has suffered greatly since Sony took over. When you finaly get e-mailed back it's very great support. The "we're dealing with a new release" excuse was fine when V5/Acid 4 came out last year, but that's been in the form e-mail since then. :(

They really should add on a few more support guru's. With the adition of all the "consumer" products their support problely is now 5x what it used to be and most likely added a new guy or two. I know support shouldn't excede your dev staff because then that means the dev staff isn't doing it's job, but waiting 3 weeks for a responce isn't fun. :(
violet wrote on 12/19/2005, 9:11 PM
Well... I would have to say my only experience with their tech support was when I had an installation problem with Acid Pro 5.0. The online support responded quickly and solved the problem. Plus they followed up to get information about the soft synths I found were initially incompatible with 5.0. Admittedly, I haven't had a reason to contact them lately.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 12/19/2005, 9:41 PM
explains why Vegas got PSP support so fast. Honestly, I wish Sony would let those guys work with what they do best: Vegas, Acid, Soundforge & supliments to that. IMHO, Sony is using the money I pay for Vegas to help out the game divison push the PSP.
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/19/2005, 9:49 PM
While I understand your point, I'd have to disagree. By supporting the PSP so quickly, it established Vegas as a premium tool that authors PSP-ready vids. UMD doesn't directly support Vegas, but if you look around at the cost of UMD authoring....you could buy about 40 copies of Vegas for the cost of the UMD software. It's not cheap, and keep in mind the "trickle-down" cycle. Acid grew from Sound Forge, Vegas grew from ACID, and they all now feed each other as technology develops. So, it's hard to say that any one thing you've paid for is diminished by other development. It might well be that they've been itching to develop this or that, or the other thing (definitely nothing specific in mind here) and have never had the ability to justify the funding to develop this or that, or the other thing. And maybe now a big dev program for XYZ at Sony brings in the funding for this or that, or the other thing that will later benefit ACID, Sound Forge, or Vegas, but we don't have to pay for it as users.
I might be 180 degrees off with this thought.... but it's how a competing software company got started in this business. (major contract developed into a new off-shoot product, which later turned into a monster application)
farss wrote on 12/19/2005, 10:17 PM
Damn them,
I've been whining about this for so long now I'll have to buy a copy, guess I'll have to delay that second Viper for a few months :)
Bob.
DGates wrote on 12/19/2005, 11:35 PM
"Mirage has some nifty features if you are an animator, or want an effects app that has excellent video painting options...but AE or Combustion it aint."

"Any thoughts on how all this could affect Vegas in the long term?"

It's also not as expensive as AE or Combustion, so it's not fair to directly compare them. People will complain no matter what Sony does. The fact is that Vegas will never be a Final Cut Pro, with all the backing and innovation of Apple. Vegas is a top-flight NLE with limited market saturation. And that's ok.

Coursedesign wrote on 12/19/2005, 11:57 PM
...with all the backing and innovation of Apple.

What were you thinking of? If by backing you mean marketing, yes, they are #1.

Innovation? Hmmm:

pre-emptive multitasking? Umm, no (Windows first by about 10 years).
Mixed format on the timeline? Ummm, no.
24p? No, Vegas was first.
Surround sound? Nope.
Multi-button mouse support to speed up work? Nope (they're still dragging their heels)
Audio work in the NLE? Nope, that's Vegas.
Etc., etc.

They got very lucky when Walter Murch got so fed up with Avid's attitude towards customers that he was even prepared to risk his career on a not yet functional NLE on a not yet functional OS.

The LAFCPUG (Los Angeles FCP Users Group) had their collective jaws hanging down by their ankles the entire time when Tim Duncan demoed Vegas at one of their meetings...

I think Apple is a pioneer in design, and they certainly do that very well.

It's the Kool Aid I can't stand, the religious Mac fundamentalism that disregards all facts in favor of cybernetic rapture.

At least it's been a while since we heard even Steve Jobs say that Mac G5's powerful 64-bit processors run circles around measly PeeCeees....

It must have been quite a shock for Emperor Jobs to hear about how many Mac blowhards had PCs hidden under their desks to do rendering, because they had work to do... Ditto for 3D work and serious VFX.

Cute though :O).
billwil wrote on 12/20/2005, 2:17 AM
Course...

Nice rant...very eloquent. Sometimes I like to read a good rant...and yours was right up there. :) I especially liked the cybernetic rapture comment. Nice work.

B~
DGates wrote on 12/20/2005, 2:53 AM
To get into another "which is better?" discussion isn't the point. You can list all the things Vegas has over FCP, but it doesn't change the fact that more and more editors, post houses, freelancers, etc, are choosing FCP as their NLE.

It that fair? Who knows? But it's a fact. I love editing on Vegas, but I'm level-headed enough to say it's ok if the NLE trend is towards FCP.
RBartlett wrote on 12/20/2005, 4:10 AM
Mirage isn't aimed at the compositor market not that it is devoid of tools that might be described as compositing. It is a similar tale for Vegas' built-in compositing and plug-ins. I'd advise shoppers to try AE, or more probably (imho) Eyeon's DFX+ 5.

Mirage is a paintbox and animation solution. A different tack to the vector based compositors and non-linear editors. It isn't consumer oriented - but neither is/was Vegas.

Notable guys at various facilities associated with these and many more media houses, but including - Disney, Pixar, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network:
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_rusty_mills.php
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_peter_wassink.php
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_hiroyuki_nishimura.php
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_happy_trails_winter.php
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_paul_fierlinger.php
http://www.bauhaussoftware.com/community_userstories_terrence_walkerII.php

I doubt Madison will be supporting Mirage beyond the pre-sales and order fulfillment.

back to the main subject of this thread:
You wouldn't buy Mirage if you didn't need it. For many folks Windows MovieMaker is enough to quench their NLE thirst. ;) I'm sure PaintShopPro and Pbrush.exe suits many painters too. It comes down to precision, artistic representation and the right set of tools. I'd also say that some of the values found in Mirage are not too different to what the SonicFoundry team originally rolled into Vegas. Both support advanced scripting and reasonably open SDKs that are intended to work between host application versions. fwiw - I don't see that Sony are looking to fill their portfolio with Adobe/Thomson/Avid equivalent items.

The better FCP gets, the better Vegas gets. Competition is important, as is choice and the ability to try-out before stating your preference. I wouldn't read too much into the showcase products that SMS put forward. Casablanca CBPaint and NewTek Aura also have an association with the developers that are behind Bauhaus Mirage. Not all Casablanca or NewTek folks choose to add or use this painting technology. Horses for courses.