Getting some "jiggle" on PIP

Lancerman wrote on 7/25/2009, 9:37 PM
I am getting some "jiggle" on one side of any PIP stuff I am doing in Vegas - SD (DV) content. Rather than parent/child - I've shortcut using Deform in Vegas, or Boris FX, or New Blue FX PIP presets - they all have the same result... the left side of the PIP quivers while the top, bottom, and right sides stay stable. Any ideas?

Comments

farss wrote on 7/25/2009, 10:15 PM
More detail might help a little:
What are you viewing this on?
What is the original source material?
How was it captured?

Quick and dirty fix might be to add a small border to the PIP, use the borderFX. If that doesn't fix it something really funky is going on.


Bob.
Lancerman wrote on 7/26/2009, 1:22 AM
I use dual Samsung 22" monitors - but when I produce a DVD it does it on the TV screen(s) too - both on an old 4:3 tube and an HD flat.

Source material are usually .jpg files - the PIP is over either another jpg or avi file (captured via firewire through Vegas). If the background is a jpg, I usually pan it so there is some slight movement to it as well - I am also pan/zooming the PIP (the picture in the PIP - PIP is stationary except for the transition to the next pic)
.
I actually have a border on the PIP - I've taken it off - same result. I've made it real thin - 1 px - or real thick - 30 px - same result.

I've had this for a while - on my older system with V8 and perhaps V7. It has done it on my newer system with V8 and V9 - I don't believe it was happening way back with V5 or V6 - but somewhere along the way it started - I let it go - just have gotten tired of it again and was hoping someone else had seen it and might know something I don't. It doesn't make sense to me that just the one side does it and not the other three.

I also tried changing the PIP size and/or moving it off center - but so far, it does it no matter what...
Chienworks wrote on 7/26/2009, 5:17 AM
I would probably use Pan/Crop instead of deform, simply because it's a more straight-forward operation who's intention is to change the size of the image. Deform has a lot more functions that could do things you might not necessarily want to do.

Do you notice the jiggle more when the background picture is moving? Do you notice it more when the background is a video? I suspect you may be seeing interlacing artifacts. As the images move Vegas will be producing two fields per frame, with the second field being moved another 60th of a second ahead of the first frame. View this result on a progressive display and you'll get a 'combing' effect that will jiggle back and forth on any vertical lines.

Odd though that it only affects the left edge. It should effect left and right edges equally.
farss wrote on 7/26/2009, 6:13 AM
Hm,
it could be line twitter but that'll show up anywhere on the image where there's fine detail, not just at an edge. You can get a flickering edge on video captured from analog tapes but again if you crop the image as you've done that'd be gone.

It is possible to capture and jpeg and cause problems if you don't de-interlace it. This only applies to images capture from interlaced video.

When you move anything around in a frame of video you can get a 'beat' between the rate it is moving and the frame rate. The lack of motion blur when you make it move makes this more noticeable. Ideally you want the image to move an integer number of pixels per frame. You can perhaps solve this by adding a Supersampling Envelope to the Video Bus Master track. I'd try that and/or motion blur.

Bob.
Laurence wrote on 7/26/2009, 9:13 AM
To me it sounds like you are doing a resize of interlaced footage with the "select deinterlace method" tab unchecked. Resizes of interlaced footage always need to have this tab selected. Otherwise the interlace comb is resized and the results are kind of jiggly edges.
Lancerman wrote on 7/26/2009, 12:51 PM
Ok - took all your advice and ran some tests and I was able to get the jiggle to stop - but only under one condition - by changing the source material to a jpg created from a vegas screen capture. I used jpg's from different cameras - it still did it whether it was a PIP in Boris FX, using deform, using Newblue fx, or or using track motion on a separate track in vegas - and with about every combination of project properties related to interlacing that I know (upper, lower, none - combined with blend, interpolate, etc. - I even changed the motion type [gaussian, box, pyramid]. I checked and unchecked the "reduce interlace flicker" on the clip - nothing seemed to fix the issue except when I used a jpg from a screen capture within vegas. although my projects are SD - they are 16:9 - but, on the pan crop it still did it if I left it at default, 16:9, or 4:3...

So - any ideas on what I can do to my source material so that the left edge of it doesn't give Vegas problems? Particularly something that doesn't require me to literally go in and modify every jpg I want to use in a project individually?

Thanks for all your help so far - although none of your suggestions fixed it nice and clean - they did put me on a track of thinking that helped to at least diagnose the problem correctly - hoping you may have some other ideas that will get me a little further...
Lancerman wrote on 7/26/2009, 12:55 PM
One other thing - if I use video content in the PIP it also does not jiggle - regardless of the PIP method - again reinforcing the source media as the likely culprit to me...

Again - any ideas on what I might be able to do to the source media to get it to stop behaving this way and giving Vegas this trouble... and me...

Thanks for your input!
Lancerman wrote on 7/26/2009, 7:48 PM
This issue is closed... It turned out to be the source material. The camera I use is an older Canon EOS Rebel. I'l have to see why it creates this problem with the files. I just took all the files that I was using in PIP and brought them into photoshop and cropped about 4 pixels off the left edge. Now every kind of PIP works fine - track motion, Boris FX, Newblue fx, and deform - steady as a rock. Thanks for all the suggestions - they at least got me on the right thinking track to find a kludge to make this work. I don't want to have to do this all the time, but, I at least have a manual work around...