Ghosting in DV Rendered Video

johnmeyer wrote on 12/31/2000, 5:22 PM
I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit the video,
doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video and print
to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that contain
pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as if two
frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume this is an
interlacing problem of some sort.

I capture audio and video into two separate streams (Type 2
AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I render
using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very wrong
because I've been told in previous posts that the process I
describe above results in absolutely no change or
alteration to the video.

What is going on, and how do I fix this problem? I didn't
discover this until I had done almost eight hours of
editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going back and
forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and I've got
problems with both, but Studio DV has never created bad
video. This is a really basic flaw, and the product is not
usable unless I can find a fix.

Thanks!

John Meyer

Comments

deef wrote on 1/1/2001, 1:44 AM
Do you have DirectX 8 installed?

John Meyer wrote:
>>I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit the video,
>>doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video and print
>>to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that contain
>>pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as if two
>>frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume this is
an
>>interlacing problem of some sort.
>>
>>I capture audio and video into two separate streams (Type
2
>>AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I render
>>using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very wrong
>>because I've been told in previous posts that the process
I
>>describe above results in absolutely no change or
>>alteration to the video.
>>
>>What is going on, and how do I fix this problem? I didn't
>>discover this until I had done almost eight hours of
>>editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going back and
>>forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and I've got
>>problems with both, but Studio DV has never created bad
>>video. This is a really basic flaw, and the product is
not
>>usable unless I can find a fix.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>John Meyer
johnmeyer wrote on 1/1/2001, 5:19 PM
No, I don't. I just upgraded from Win98 to Win98 SE in
order to get the video capture to work properly. According
to the DirectX diagnostic tool, I have 7.0 (4.07.00.0716)
installed. Do I need to upgrade to DirectX 8.0? I thought
it caused problems.

John Meyer

P.S. I've uninstalled everything, manually deleted every
registry entry I could find, and then reinstalled. I was
able to get two small renders to work correctly, but then a
ten minute cuts-only render (actually it had one title at
the beginning), was once again totally awful (the problem
is not subtle). Two hours down the drain ... Bummer.

=========================
=================

dee wrote:
>>Do you have DirectX 8 installed?
>>
>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit the
video,
>>>>doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video and
print
>>>>to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that
contain
>>>>pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as if
two
>>>>frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume this is
>>an
>>>>interlacing problem of some sort.
>>>>
>>>>I capture audio and video into two separate streams
(Type
>>2
>>>>AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I render
>>>>using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very wrong
>>>>because I've been told in previous posts that the
process
>>I
>>>>describe above results in absolutely no change or
>>>>alteration to the video.
>>>>
>>>>What is going on, and how do I fix this problem? I
didn't
>>>>discover this until I had done almost eight hours of
>>>>editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going back
and
>>>>forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and I've got
>>>>problems with both, but Studio DV has never created bad
>>>>video. This is a really basic flaw, and the product is
>>not
>>>>usable unless I can find a fix.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>John Meyer
johnmeyer wrote on 1/1/2001, 5:41 PM
One more addendum to the info below: The video preview has
lines through it, as if the video is interlaced, and each
scan line is offset horizontally from the line above. It
gives the video somewhat of a herringbone pattern.

John Meyer

John Meyer wrote:
>>No, I don't. I just upgraded from Win98 to Win98 SE in
>>order to get the video capture to work properly.
According
>>to the DirectX diagnostic tool, I have 7.0 (4.07.00.0716)
>>installed. Do I need to upgrade to DirectX 8.0? I thought
>>it caused problems.
>>
>>John Meyer
>>
>>P.S. I've uninstalled everything, manually deleted every
>>registry entry I could find, and then reinstalled. I was
>>able to get two small renders to work correctly, but then
a
>>ten minute cuts-only render (actually it had one title at
>>the beginning), was once again totally awful (the problem
>>is not subtle). Two hours down the drain ... Bummer.
>>
>>=========================
>>=================
>>
>>dee wrote:
>>>>Do you have DirectX 8 installed?
>>>>
>>>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>>>I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit the
>>video,
>>>>>>doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video and
>>print
>>>>>>to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that
>>contain
>>>>>>pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as if
>>two
>>>>>>frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume this
is
>>>>an
>>>>>>interlacing problem of some sort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I capture audio and video into two separate streams
>>(Type
>>>>2
>>>>>>AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I
render
>>>>>>using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very wrong
>>>>>>because I've been told in previous posts that the
>>process
>>>>I
>>>>>>describe above results in absolutely no change or
>>>>>>alteration to the video.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is going on, and how do I fix this problem? I
>>didn't
>>>>>>discover this until I had done almost eight hours of
>>>>>>editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going back
>>and
>>>>>>forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and I've
got
>>>>>>problems with both, but Studio DV has never created
bad
>>>>>>video. This is a really basic flaw, and the product
is
>>>>not
>>>>>>usable unless I can find a fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John Meyer
deef wrote on 1/2/2001, 4:31 PM
John, do you see the "ghosting" only when it's
previewed/printed out to the DV device? Or do you also see
this in the VF preview window and say Media Player?

John Meyer wrote:
>>One more addendum to the info below: The video preview
has
>>lines through it, as if the video is interlaced, and each
>>scan line is offset horizontally from the line above. It
>>gives the video somewhat of a herringbone pattern.
>>
>>John Meyer
>>
>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>No, I don't. I just upgraded from Win98 to Win98 SE in
>>>>order to get the video capture to work properly.
>>According
>>>>to the DirectX diagnostic tool, I have 7.0
(4.07.00.0716)
>>>>installed. Do I need to upgrade to DirectX 8.0? I
thought
>>>>it caused problems.
>>>>
>>>>John Meyer
>>>>
>>>>P.S. I've uninstalled everything, manually deleted
every
>>>>registry entry I could find, and then reinstalled. I
was
>>>>able to get two small renders to work correctly, but
then
>>a
>>>>ten minute cuts-only render (actually it had one title
at
>>>>the beginning), was once again totally awful (the
problem
>>>>is not subtle). Two hours down the drain ... Bummer.
>>>>
>>>>=========================
>>>>=================
>>>>
>>>>dee wrote:
>>>>>>Do you have DirectX 8 installed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>>>>>I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit the
>>>>video,
>>>>>>>>doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video and
>>>>print
>>>>>>>>to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that
>>>>contain
>>>>>>>>pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as
if
>>>>two
>>>>>>>>frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume
this
>>is
>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>interlacing problem of some sort.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I capture audio and video into two separate streams
>>>>(Type
>>>>>>2
>>>>>>>>AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I
>>render
>>>>>>>>using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very
wrong
>>>>>>>>because I've been told in previous posts that the
>>>>process
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>describe above results in absolutely no change or
>>>>>>>>alteration to the video.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What is going on, and how do I fix this problem? I
>>>>didn't
>>>>>>>>discover this until I had done almost eight hours
of
>>>>>>>>editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going
back
>>>>and
>>>>>>>>forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and I've
>>got
>>>>>>>>problems with both, but Studio DV has never created
>>bad
>>>>>>>>video. This is a really basic flaw, and the product
>>is
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>usable unless I can find a fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>John Meyer
johnmeyer wrote on 1/3/2001, 10:36 AM
To answer your question, I performed a very lengthy test
(it took half a day -- I hope you appreciate all the work
some people do to de-bug your products -- grumble,
grumble). What follows is a little long, but everything
works until the end, at which point it fails. Hopefully
this will help you pinpoint what is going on. This is VERY
puzzling.

First, here's my system info:

Win98 (SE)
Micron Pentium II 450MHz
192 MB RAM
14G Hard Drive (drive 1 on IDE 1 controller)
30G Hard Drive (drive 2 on IDE 2 controller)
DirectX 7
QDV.DLL version: 6.01.05.0322
MSDV.SYS driver: 4.10.2224
Diamond Viper V550 16MB RAM

I uninstalled all DV applications (Studio DV, VideoFactory,
and Video Capture). I manually went through the registry
and took out everything I could find relating to Pinnacle
and SF products. I went to the Control Panel and deleted
most of the Codecs, including the various Indeo codecs. I
booted up in safe mode and deleted any duplicate device
drivers. I also deleted ALL drivers under "system" and then
re-booted and let Windows re-build my system. I then re-
installed Windows 98 SE. Following that I installed
VideoFactory, rebooted, and then installed VideoCapture and
rebooted -- this was lots of fun :(

I did not re-install any Pinnacle Products (i.e., Studio
DV).

I then captured about fifteen seconds of video of the area
of the tape that seemed to cause the most noticeable
artifacts. I did this capture using the default settings
(in all of these tests, I made no changes from the defaults
available at installation). I then played this back within
VideoCapture, both on the screen and through the attached
DV camera (Sony TRV-11). Everything looked normal. So far
so good.

I closed Capture and opened VideoFactory. I double-click on
the fifteen second clip, waited a moment for the audio
proxy to be rendered, and then played it. The video on the
screen looked just fine.

I then selected the fifteen second clip and rendered the
loop to an AVI file using the "NTSC DV" template (no
modifications). I then closed VideoFactory and started
Capture (I know I can run both at the same time, but I'm
trying to give everything the maximum chance of working).
It played back perfectly.

I then opened an eight minute project that I had rendered
prior to uninstalling/reinstalling everything. It still
looked awful.

My next step was to capture 11 minutes of DV footage and
edit it. This is where everything has started to go wrong
in the past.

I captured the eleven minutes and played it back through
Capture. It looked fine.

I then opened it up in VideoFactory and waited about three
minutes while the audio proxy was created (is this really
necessary? Is there any advantage to capturing files in a
format that requires this long delay before I can begin
work?). I then edited the 11 minute sequence, merely
trimming the beginning and ending of the scenes. I did not
add titles, disolves, or any FX. I then rendered the entire
11 minutes.

I closed VF and then opened Capture and played the clip.

THE VIDEO WAS TERRIBLE!!!

Thus, capturing and rendering a fifteen second clip works
fine, but capturing, editing, and rendering an eleven
minute clip doesn't work.

O.K., two things changed between what worked and what
didn't: the length of the clip, and the fact that I
performed edits.

I first went back to the fifteen second clip, rendered it
again and played it. This still produced perfect results. I
then opened the 11 minute clip and selected the fifteen
seconds from it that roughly matched the fifteen seconds
that I had captured in the short clip. I rendered that and
it played correctly.

I then made two edits prior to the fifteen second portion
of the tape, and then deleted most of the clip after the
fifteen second portion and rendered that. As I watched the
preview window in SF during the render, I noticed the video
was herringboned, as I've described happens sometimes
during actual playback. Things got stranger still. The
video played fine through the sections of the first three
edits, but after the fourth edit, the video turned lousy.

I then went back to VF and selected the last section of
video (approximately 19 seconds, just before I cut off the
last nine minutes). I rendered just this last portion. I
selected "render loop region only." Now this was really
weird. The render, which should have taken fifteen seconds,
instead took forever. I finally stopped after a few minutes
and played the clip. I had three frames of extremely dark
video, and then nothing but black.

What is going on here? I need HELP!!

John Meyer
=================================

dee wrote:
>>John, do you see the "ghosting" only when it's
>>previewed/printed out to the DV device? Or do you also
see
>>this in the VF preview window and say Media Player?
>>
>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>One more addendum to the info below: The video preview
>>has
>>>>lines through it, as if the video is interlaced, and
each
>>>>scan line is offset horizontally from the line above.
It
>>>>gives the video somewhat of a herringbone pattern.
>>>>
>>>>John Meyer
>>>>
>>>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>>>No, I don't. I just upgraded from Win98 to Win98 SE
in
>>>>>>order to get the video capture to work properly.
>>>>According
>>>>>>to the DirectX diagnostic tool, I have 7.0
>>(4.07.00.0716)
>>>>>>installed. Do I need to upgrade to DirectX 8.0? I
>>thought
>>>>>>it caused problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John Meyer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>P.S. I've uninstalled everything, manually deleted
>>every
>>>>>>registry entry I could find, and then reinstalled. I
>>was
>>>>>>able to get two small renders to work correctly, but
>>then
>>>>a
>>>>>>ten minute cuts-only render (actually it had one
title
>>at
>>>>>>the beginning), was once again totally awful (the
>>problem
>>>>>>is not subtle). Two hours down the drain ... Bummer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>=========================
>>>>>>=================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>dee wrote:
>>>>>>>>Do you have DirectX 8 installed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>John Meyer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>I capture DV video from my Sony TRV=11. I edit
the
>>>>>>video,
>>>>>>>>>>doing nothing but cuts. I then render the video
and
>>>>>>print
>>>>>>>>>>to tape. However, once rendered, the scenes that
>>>>>>contain
>>>>>>>>>>pans show ghosting from one frame to the next, as
>>if
>>>>>>two
>>>>>>>>>>frames are being shown simultaneously. I assume
>>this
>>>>is
>>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>>>interlacing problem of some sort.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I capture audio and video into two separate
streams
>>>>>>(Type
>>>>>>>>2
>>>>>>>>>>AVI) to avoid having to build the audio proxy. I
>>>>render
>>>>>>>>>>using the "NTSC DV" template. Something is very
>>wrong
>>>>>>>>>>because I've been told in previous posts that the
>>>>>>process
>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>describe above results in absolutely no change or
>>>>>>>>>>alteration to the video.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What is going on, and how do I fix this problem?
I
>>>>>>didn't
>>>>>>>>>>discover this until I had done almost eight hours
>>of
>>>>>>>>>>editing, most of it unrecoverable. I keep going
>>back
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>forth between Studio DV and VideoFactory, and
I've
>>>>got
>>>>>>>>>>problems with both, but Studio DV has never
created
>>>>bad
>>>>>>>>>>video. This is a really basic flaw, and the
product
>>>>is
>>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>>>>usable unless I can find a fix.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>John Meyer
rroades wrote on 1/6/2001, 1:05 PM
I just posted basically the same question - your post
didn't show up when I was posting mine.

I had installed the ExpressFX that came with my CD, and the
beeps started, but I didn't initially make that connection
until I tried to use the FX.

However, I just installed the ExpressFX updates (found
online) and the beeps stopped. Perhaps it's a prob with
that. Feel free to email me directly if this works for you.
I only check these when I have a proble.

Hope it works for you, too.

Rick

mag wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have a fully registered version of VideoFactory and am
>>hearing beeps every few seconds. I have searched these
>>forums but nobody seems to have a solution.
>>
>>People suggest that it is something to do with using
audio
>>effects but I haven't even used any yet. I have simply
>>opened 1 .AVI file and tried to play it. This results in
>>regular beeps. I tried rebooting after I registered the
>>product but that didn't work.
>>
>>When I open the soundtrack in soundforge, the beeps are
>>gone so I know it is VideoFactory making these noises and
>>not my hardware (SB LIVE).
>>
>>Any ideas anybody?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Gooders
nlamartina wrote on 1/14/2001, 1:54 AM
Gooders, what kind of motherboard do you have? There's a
certain type of VIA chipset that causes interference with a
SBLive! that causes popping or static sound. I know this
cuz I have one. There's no patch to fix it but it shouldn't
affect rendered files. If that's not the case, I'm unsure
about how to help your problem.

Nick

mag wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have a fully registered version of VideoFactory and am
>>hearing beeps every few seconds. I have searched these
>>forums but nobody seems to have a solution.
>>
>>People suggest that it is something to do with using
audio
>>effects but I haven't even used any yet. I have simply
>>opened 1 .AVI file and tried to play it. This results in
>>regular beeps. I tried rebooting after I registered the
>>product but that didn't work.
>>
>>When I open the soundtrack in soundforge, the beeps are
>>gone so I know it is VideoFactory making these noises and
>>not my hardware (SB LIVE).
>>
>>Any ideas anybody?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Gooders