Also consider iZotope's Neutron - https://www.izotope.com/en/products/neutron.html

Both Nectar and Neutron have 10 day free trial versions.

@RogerS and @Dexcon -- when I wrote "RX" tools I meant iZotope :-) I do have them and use them sometimes (but sufficiently infrequently that I always have to try and remember which is for vocal and which for instruments lol)

I did add Neutron to my Pit master audio bus and it added a small bit of EQ and a compressor. I suppose that's a start but nothing I couldn't do with just the standard Vegas tools. I feel like there must be something .. more to make the strings sing more smoothly, the flutes be crisp but blending, etc.

I should have considered Nectar for the vocal track, but I wonder how it would behave applied generically when 1/3 the lines are spoken and 2/3 sung, and some by tenors, some altos, an occasional soprano sprinkled with some ensemble numbers? Yes yes... I'm expecting "no magic bullet Rob -- you need to mix each song and each moment based on its own characteristics"....

and THAT is why I'd much rather have an audio engineer doing that ;-) It literally doubles my finishing work because I care more than what I perceive the "average" video professional does. And I appreciate dynamics so I do try to keep them when I can, but also recognize ppl will be listening on a variety of devices where the vocals need to always be present event at low volumes, and be legible on top of music (which often plays as rock-themed).

ART. Sometimes it takes time :)

Nectar is intended for vocals.

Can the spoken lines be put on their own track to make it easier to isolate them and limit particular Nectar settings to particular situations? They might be a different volume anyway (and need to be brought up?) Then apply Nectar at the track level?

I am not experienced enough to suggest a better or faster way to do this if there is one. I think you're right that doing it well will take time and effort.

Nectar is intended for vocals.

Can the spoken lines be put on their own track to make it easier to isolate them and limit particular Nectar settings to particular situations? They might be a different volume anyway (and need to be brought up?) Then apply Nectar at the track level?

I am not experienced enough to suggest a better or faster way to do this if there is one. I think you're right that doing it well will take time and effort.

That's what I've been using audio busses for.

Instead of using envelopes on the recorded audio tracks to turn on/off effects (e.g. for sung vs dialog), or splitting the audio events and/or moving them to their own tracks -- I send a copy of the appropriate tracks to a bus (or a series of buses, and apply audio FX to those buses. Then I raise and lower the volumes of those buses as needed to get their effects applied when I want them.

That flow is still a bit new to me since I used to do everything on the individual audio tracks, but with too many envelopes on a track it became unwieldy.

Another consideration might be SpectraLayers from Steinberg (formerly owned by Sony and then MAGIX). SpectraLayers 10 has an excellent feature called Unmix where some of the instruments (Drums, Guitar, Piano, Bass) are broken unmised into their own layer:

Each layer has its own Mute/Solo switches as well as a volume control which means that music track could be remixed to a certain extent - all with the one stereo track (no multiple audio tracks required). It is frighteningly good at unmixing to remove vocals, or using the volume control to increase or lower the volume of the vocal/s relative to the instrumentals. And SpectraLayers has an excellent noise reduction feature amongst so many other features.

More info about SpectraLayers here: https://www.steinberg.net/spectralayers/features/ - and there is a free trial available.

However, you might want to wait a short while because the release of SpectraLayers 11 is due any time supposedly this month, and the product owner has said in recent days on Steinberg's SpectraLayers forum that there are significant new features/improvements in SL11 over SL10.

I've been using SpectraLayers since version 1 back in Sony SCS days and, maybe because I'm more familiar with it than with spectral repair in RX, I do prefer SpectraLayers for spectral repair than RX.

@Dexcon Oh. that is an interesting tool indeed. IF it works as advertised, for example, I could grab my mic-tracks in the pit, isolate the flute and lower just its volume while leaving other similar -frequency instruments (like viola or violin) untouched? That's be pretty amazeballs!

Based on SpectraLayers 10 which breaks unmix layers into the layers mentioned earlier, I somehow doubt that SL will be able to identify similar frequency instruments into separate stems - more likely they'll end up as a group in the 'Other' layer. Maybe it will be different in SL11, but that is yet to be seen (or heard).

IF (SLP) it works as advertised.

SLP works as advertised.. it ain't 100% perfect though, but generally works very well. Results may vary depending on quality and some stems may have artifacts. It does not extract individual tracks, just stems, i.e., drums, bass, piano, vocals and 'other'. SLP-10 can also separate vocals to an extent..

There are other restoration tools as well. Manually editing the spectral graph has somewhat of a learning curve. Experience with pro photo editing software can be helpful.

We edit LOTS of musical theatre shows.. have been doing so well over 10 years.

Me too, in the 1990s. Never tried to sweeten the vocals with post fx, used the natural room delay and ambience instead.

Might gain a few ideas from our setup (assuming you are doing a 5.1 mix and the stage has a sunken pit.

• Orchestra mix in stereo. Panned LF and LR in the mixdown. We had 8-10 SM50s and SM57s in the pit on their own sub
• All the leads had bodypacks, plus several shotguns overhead and a couple of Crown PCCs on the lip for chorus numbers. Panned mostly FC with a little movement allowed for the body packs, which were compressed usually 5:1. The only problems occured when the leads got too close to the stage monitors.
• FC channel was delayed maybe 15ms to give a feeling of forward depth.
• Here's the "sweetening" -- a couple of back row or mezzanine mics aimed over the heads of the audience at the proscenium, adding air to the mix, panned Rear. That alone covered a multitude of sins. The delay was 32ms, equaling the distance from the stage to the booth. Got great ambience, conservatively mixed and compression was added to tame the audience reactions.
• All in all there were 6-8 board subs and sometimes the guys in the booth struggled a bit to give us good premixes, but it all worked out. The main board was a 32 ch Crown, and a side mixer was added when needed.

@mark-y Your attention to detail was exemplary! And I appreciate you sharing your experiences! (thank you)

Alas, although some of the shows we film are touring productions, they're only interested in 2-cam archival so they can review it when they re-mount future tours.

The majority (not all) of our musicals are [fantastic] school productions with limited budgets. Although we film with 7-ish cameras I really try to encourage a dedicated field engineer for audio recording and post-mixing.

Getting the sound right is WAY more challenging to me than the video which I'm told we're pretty fine at. Not to mention, there are way less visual cues that get messed up than live audio issues 😉

• Feedback
• Crackles
• Body pack not brought up on time
• Body pack failures
• Unbalanced levels (not talking about balanced vs unbalanced cables ;-) ) between talent throughout the show

One thing that has improved since the 90's is the ability to ISO record each channel on the digital mixers via a single cable plugged into a laptop DAW. Besides a real-time mix and a few submixes being recorded, if there's a problem the entire show can theoretically be remixed or patched by chasing down mics as needed.

Not to mention the Stage Manager forgetting to change the bodypack batteries!

Truth be known, I was a microphone junkie. I bought our Narrator for "Joseph . . ." a Crown CM311A, the iconic "Britney Spears Mic" and for the Pharoah a vintage SM55s for the Elvis feature number, which we raffled off at intermission during our final Sunday matinee. It was that show that earned us enough money to form my regional company, which lasted twelve years. Our JCS production sold out and grossed over $40K in two weekends.

All I really wanted to do was direct orchestras, being a producer was just paying my dues. At 75, I do like to brag about it 😏

Not to mention the Stage Manager forgetting to change the bodypack batteries!

BWAHAHA. I was being gentle and bundled that in "body pack failures" ;-)

• #1 rule -- always start with fresh batteries!
• #2 rule -- make sure it's on!
• #3 rule -- assume your pack is hot; proceed with caution!

I appreciate when directors educate their cast on what to do if their pack is failing -- as in, go near a boundary mic, or find a nearby actor and hope the competent board ops will pick up on that. But sometimes *cough cough solo moment during Joseph* the actor is just kinda' ... stuck... for a while, and a bit of creativity must find its way into getting batteries in there! Of course.. this is all theoretical.

ADR for the win.

(unrelated -- "ADR -- Automated Dialogue Replacement" -- there's nothing really automated about it?!)

Truth be known, I was a microphone junkie. I bought our Narrator for "Joseph . . ." a Crown CM311A, the iconic "Britney Spears Mic" and for the Pharoah a vintage SM55s for the Elvis feature number, which we raffled off at intermission during our final Sunday matinee. It was that show that earned us enough money to form my regional company, which lasted twelve years. Our JCS production sold out and grossed over $40K in two weekends.

All I really wanted to do was direct orchestras, being a producer was just paying my dues. At 75, I do like to brag about it 😏

My friend Larry S is a bit of a tech/mic junkie (similar age) .. as is another who works audio for film.. that's awesome about the mics for those productions. Right tool for the right job, eh? I'd ask you how you like the most recent touring JCS (if you've seen it), but that would really take this thread even more on a tangent!

So -- at 75 -- producing? teaching? writing? composing? noodling with Video editing?

Of all our stage production work, musical theatre is definitely among our favorite things to produce. It's also the most challenging -- having to retell the 3D experience, considering *all* the different "audiences" (parents, talent, public, choreographer), and making decisions how the story will play out on screen. We adore the work! And COVID opened new creative possibilities as we filmed shows sans-audience, with freedom to fly drones and film ore POV takes on stage.