Or you could use Quick Time pro.

Dave T2

Thanks for the info...I've been working with those this afternoon and the output looks great and file sizes are much smaller. They output to a .mp4 file format, which seems to play well on Quicktime.

I'm not understanding H.264, I'm afraid.
I rendered out a file from After Effects and had pretty much total control over the parameters. However, in Vegas, I only get two options for size, 320x240 and 640x480. I'm being asked to send some cable spots up in this format, so after reading this thread, I've used the MP4 as detailed above, and the file looks marvelous.
But if I want to preserve my 720x480 SD DV timeline, how might I do that?

select the video tab and hit custom and manually input your desired resolution.

I'm a dope.
I forgot to hit "Custom."
Thanks Pat.

I am still using Vegas 6 and beginning to reconsider that. I have had several projects in the last few months that have been nothing but lackluster and problematic, especially when rendering for web viewing.

Questions:
(1) It appears that Vegas 6 is unable to render using H.264 codec, is that true? I keep getting errors and it does not complete the rendering. This is important when the web company insists on an .mov file.

(2) I have used both the MainConcept AVC/ACC and the Sony AVC/ACC to render and export (BEST quality) and they still do not look as crisp as what FinalCut Express was rendering. Am I missing something?

I have also compared Vegas and FinalCutPro a great deal these last few weeks and I am slowly becoming disappointed in Vegas, for the first time.

In addition to the above, I imported the edited AVI files into FinalCutPro and Compressor and they came out amazingly better. Amazingly! The Vegas product looked like a high school amateur in comparison to the output from compressor. If you haven't seen what Compressor can do with rendering then you should take a look. The final rendered product is just better.

Any input and/or clarity you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

H.264 is great but also a bit problematic as quite often it causes older QTs to crash. In general using QT for web presentations is a bit iffy so nowday besides QT i offer (as my frimary web platform) flash.

I'd re-examine the workflow or render settings. After having tested Compressor and other tools for .264 output, Vegas is equal or superior to any low-cost application out there, and far superior to QTPro for .264 output.
Have a look at all the .264-derived vids on YouTube as just one example of how well Vegas does. Compressor is a reasonably good tool for many things, but Sorenson kicks it across the room, and Vegas kicks it pretty hard too. On the MPEG 2 side, Vegas is still very, very good, but there are now tools doing better for low cost, and Compressor has finally caught up on the MPEG 2 side, IMO.

Thread,

I would have to echo DSE. On top of that, I have found that if you render to H.264 as a .mov QT file from Vegas it looks poor. That is not because of Vegas. It is the interface of rendering through QT using the CODEC to get a QT .mov file. Rendered straight out as an .mp4 file from Vegas is much better and holds up against almost anything.

For specialized compression or specific uses, I believe in using external tools to get the best output when needed. MPEG and DV out of Vegas is excellent. Sorrenson is great with other CODEC's. For the web I use the Flash Encoder from Flash.

Thanks Spot/DSE

I am not certain hos to translate "workflow" at this point but I have changed the settings one by one and the Compressor rendering looks so much better. It is especially noticeable when pausing on the one action frame from each rendering and comparing the two side by side. Compressor is clean, crisp and sharp whereas Vegas is blurred. (same frame)

When you refer to the settings is that when you are rendering in Quicktime with H.264? Again, Vegas 6 is not allowing me to do this, I get an error referring to rendering stopped because of a codec conversion issue. Do I have to purchase Quicktime 7 to render to this codec? I hope not.

I am getting weary having conversations with FCP users who insist that Vegas is still a kids tool.

Thanks.
(this is a great forum)

Thanks kkolbo.

I am continuing to work through this rendering sequence as an exercise in better rendering.

What "external tools" would you recommend or do you use for the best output? I am assuming you are using Sorrenson and Flash as selections from within Vegas, is that incorrect?

Try downloading and rendering H264 with the free software: Super.

John

When I speak of Sorenson, I am talking about an external application. It is an external compression application rather than the CODEC you see in Vegas. It is a fine tool.

When using Sorenson, does it mean one would have to render to an avi first? I'm also confused why H264 comes with an mp4 extension in Vegas when most of the downloaded H264 comes with the .mov file? All these while I have mistaken that Vegas can't do H264!

.mp4 and .mov are only containers, just like .avi. You can only put h.264 avc into .avi although its highly advised against

I'm having alot of difficulties with h.264 as well. In trying to render a .mov file, I select H.264 as "Video Format" but when I press the "Configure" button, nothing happens! And if I try to start rendering, I get an error that says,

"An error occurred while creating the media file [filename]
An error occurred while converting with a codec."

So I try to render an mp4 file, and again, when I press "Configure" I have no dialogue box pop up at all. For mp4 it IS able to render, but the video shows up mostly black in Quicktime, but DOES show when I drop the rendered video back into Vegas.

Very frustrated trying to render with these newer codecs. Does the Configure button work for others? Anyone had these problems?

You cannot render H.264 using QT in Vegas.
You have to use Mainconcept .mp4 to render H.264 and it only goes out to a .mp4.

Just to clarify, .mov and .avi are containers. The container does a couple of things, but I like to think of them as a way to tell the player what the CODEC that it needs to play the file is. It is like an envelope with instructions written on it. .MOV will say to the QuickTime compatible player, you need to use the MPEG4, QTAnimation, or the DV set of instructions to uncompress this file. The wrapper actually does more than that, but for this discussion that is enough. When you compress using QuickTime to create a .MOV file, you may choose among a number of different methods of compressing it. That includes H.264 MPEG4.

Some compression methods are widely recognized by players without a wrapper to give them instructions. .mp3, mpg, mp4 are some of those. On a Windows machine, you do not need to put them in a .AVI or MOV wrapper do get them to be played.

The MOV files that you are talking about have been compressed into a QuickTime wrapper using the MPEG4 H.264 CODEC/method. The .mp4 files from the MainConcept CODEC in Vegas use the same compression type, but it does not have a QuickTime wrapper on it. It will play fine in QuickTime and works just fine on the web as most browsers can call up the correct player to handle it. Encoding to H.264 directly from Vegas, I get better looking files using the Main Concept CODEC than I do passing it to QuickTime and having it's encoder do it.

I hope that helps.

When using Sorenson, does it mean one would have to render to an avi first? I'm also confused why H264 comes with an mp4 extension in Vegas when most of the downloaded H264 comes with the .mov file? All these while I have mistaken that Vegas can't do H264!

Yes, in a way. You do have to render out to an intermediate format before running it through an external compressor application. The choice of what CODEC you use will depend on available disc space and the type of source material. If the source is all DV and you haven't added any graphics or strange things, then you can just render out to a DV .avi and be fine. If there are a lot of mixed sources including heavy titles etc, and the file will be compressed to a full size progressive frame then you render out uncompressed or to something like SONY YUV. These are the two extremes of the scale. CODEC choice is a source of constant debate and opion too large for me to type out today.

Smiles

So even though it is listed as an option, Vegas is unable to render a MOV file using the H.264 or mp4 codec? That's uncanny. Can anyone confirm this? For now I'll have to stick with mp4 files.

In reply to my earlier post, I realized my QT movies were all playing black and figured out a fix to that.

So even though it is listed as an option, Vegas is unable to render a MOV file using the H.264 or mp4 codec? That's uncanny. Can anyone confirm this? For now I'll have to stick with mp4 files.

OK, I do not have V6 nearby and my memory is getting a little foggy on that version, but here is the scoop for V7d.

The compression of the Main Concept AVC CODEC used in Vegas is H.264. It is not in a Quicktime wrapper and it has .mp4 as the file extension when it is rendered directly from Vegas.

You can render to QuickTime from Vegas, but Vegas uses QT components to do it. Right now you get the options of H.261, H263 and ISO MPEG4. You do not have the option of an AVC or H.264 compliant MPEG4 compression. I do not know why that compression option is not exposed when you have the most current version of QT on your machine, but it is not.

If you are looking for a simple way to get a QT MOV file that is H.264, then render from Vegas, opening QT Pro, Export as a QT Movie, the default is now H.264.

If you do not need the QT MOV wrapper on it (I don't) then you just render using the Main Concept AVC and you have an H.264 compressed file with the extension of .mp4.

Awesome, that's helpful, thank you.

FWIW, I DO have h.264 as a QT option in V6d, but like I said, it doesn't work. But since QT opens the mp4 file anyway, I think I (and the client) can be happy with that.