Comments

farss wrote on 6/2/2009, 6:59 PM
Interesting read, thanks.
There's a certain irony to this, a Sony NLE providing the best support for RED when Red's initial mission statement was "Get Sony".
Regardless gotta take my hat off to the codesmiths at SCS for showing how simply it can be done. Now if they'd just fix DPX in V9 I'd be even happier. I don't know how it was let out in its current state.

Bob.
blink3times wrote on 6/2/2009, 7:41 PM
What can I say... this ONE line I think sums up, not just RED editing ... but Vegas on a whole:

"The process is amazingly logical...."
deusx wrote on 6/2/2009, 7:56 PM
>>>>Enter the cocky young upstart of NLE systems, Sony's Vegas.<<<<

What the ^%$& is that line about.

FCP and Premiere ( especially FCP ) are poor ripoffs of Vegas which did everything those two do at least 2-3 years before them. Doesn't anybody remember what kind of crap FCP and Premiere used to be ( FCP still is but ripping off everything they could from Vegas helped )
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/2/2009, 10:02 PM
Both Final Cut and Premiere existed for quite a while before Vegas did.
Vegas is more or less the "newest" of all the NLE crop out there.
Even Edius, which came after Vegas, was really just an outgrowth of Rex/Storm from Canopus, feeling much the same as the earlier apps.
Final Cut, Premiere, Edius, and other apps got their workflow and stylings from Avid. Vegas is/was nothing like Avid, and has been it's own persona from day one.

ergo "young upstart."
farss wrote on 6/2/2009, 10:52 PM
I suspect what accounts for Vegas's persona is it's roots in audio.

Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/2/2009, 11:15 PM
Absolutely true, Bob, and for some...that made all the difference in logical workflow. The FCP's, Premiere's, Ulead's, etc took _many_ of their audio cues from the Sound Forge and Cakewalk audio workflows developed long before there was any desktop NLE system available. Those workflows were designed by Monte and Curtis, founders of Sonic Foundry.
I well remember the day I received an award from DiscMasters for a master created in Forge 4.5 and CD Architect. They were stunned to learn it was done on an off the shelf desktop with 600.00 in software, and was 100% Redbook compliant.
The audio team wasn't slow at all, they had it going on. Some of those guys are still on the Vegas/Acid/SoundForge team.

apit34356 wrote on 6/2/2009, 11:53 PM
The fact that RED's metadata is editable is a big if not massive step. SCS may need to refine DPX output but metadata is huge! ;-) I "sense" a multi seat VEGAS in the near future.....but smarter than other NLEs.......... ;-)
farss wrote on 6/3/2009, 12:11 AM
Not to rain on anyones parade but I've been able to edit active metadata from another camera for a couple of years now. Being able to see how the image looks with the metadata applied in camera is pretty sigificant as well.
Aside from that though it's still an uphill battle to get Vegas taken seriously. That's not just a Vegas thing though. Post houses have workflows that are proven to work. With all the money at stake they need a very compelling reason to change horses. I've no doubt this in part is what keeps Avid in so many seats. You've also got to consider the assignment of roles and areas of responsibility. More than once I've suggested a more flexible and cheaper solution only to be told "we do not want those guys able mess with that".

Bob.
deusx wrote on 6/3/2009, 3:10 AM
Premiere, yes, it did exist before vegas, but FCP was first released either around the same time or after vegas ( even if it was vegas audio ).

In any case, the point is that Vegas had most of the "cool" features years before either of the two. And I don't need to tell you where they got the ideas.

Also, the fact that premiere existed before vegas is irrelevant. It was an unusable piece of crap until around 2004 or 5. Most of the editors ( conversations I remember, and my experience was about the same ) who tried it around the turn of the century were astounded that any company could release such garbage. Even if it didn't crash it was just impossible to work with.

FCP wasn't much better. Now at least it works, but it's still just a poor NLE with subpar audio capabilities.