Do any of those record to a HDD though?

I think the OP is limiting his choice unduly by insisting on recording to a HDD. There's good reasons to record to some form of flash memory rather than a HDD.

Bob.

That's why I didn't comment earlier, because hard drive recording has never been really adopted as something good due to the risk of failure from dropping it, not to mention power consumption.

"hard drive recording has never been really adopted as something good"

I suppose you really need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people that do it every day using products from companies like JVC, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Datavideo, Edirol, Focus Ehancements, Shining Techology and Red. I've been recording to hard drives for years. I haven't used tape in a long, long time.

Onboard (aka inside the camera body) HDD recording is utter crap. Offboard is another matter altogether.

"Offboard is another matter altogether."

Agreed.

Sure, there's plenty out there, and that seemed like the logical next step at the time, but if your 30 GIGABYTE HDD fails, you're hosed, and that's a cold hard reality, the whole camera is then junk too, besides the loss of the content.

=======================================
I suppose you really need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people that do it every day using products from companies like JVC, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Datavideo, Edirol, Focus Ehancements, Shining Techology and Red

.
*IF* you are talking about HD-SDI uncompressed 4:2:2 ... Then ... HERE !

Sony HXR-NX5U NXCAM Professional Camcorder $ 3,999.00

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672423-REG/Sony_HXR_NX5U_HXR_NX5U_NXCAM_Professional_Camcorder.html#specifications

An HD-SDI output makes this one of the most affordable camcorders to provide uncompressed 4:2:2 output, while HDMI and RCA outputs allow for connection to professional and consumer-grade monitors alike. Timecode sync between two or more cameras is also possible, and the addition of GPS technology makes for another first on an AVCHD pro camcorder.

= Alvin Smith =
.

Here's an interesting idea: Purchase a used Sony V1U on ebay for a great price (who wants HDV nowadays?), slap on a http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D3U1EW/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=A163DSNSCVE8H3HVRMRC1K[/link] recording unit for $700-800, and away you go with a great camera but you're now recording in 1920 x 1080 4:2:2 for about $2.5K.

wholly carp! ... not bad, at all ... What is the sensor size? LANC? XLR?

.. phantom, etc?

= Al =

"but you're now recording in 1920 x 1080 4:2:2"

Actually, you're not. The HVR-MRC1K hooks up to the IEEE-1394 Firewire port on the camera which outputs 1440x1080i 4:2:0 which has been compressed to the standard HDV 25Mb/s MPEG2 with 384k MPEG Layer-1 audio. By the time it reaches the Firewire port, the damage has already been done.

For what it's worth, the HVR-MRC1K records to Compact Flash cards, the 60GB hard drive untt is the HVR-DR60.

In order to get the full uncompressed 1920x1080 4:2:2 and stereo PCM audio out of the V1, you must use the HDMI port. There are a couple of portable units that record HDMI but they are quite expensive. I record the HDMI output of my V1u into a Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro using Cineform NeoHD and end up with a pristine 1920x1080 4:2:2 Cineform file without all the HDV artifacts. Give it enough light and the V1 looks really quite good. The Intensity Pro solution is not portable though.

Alvin: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-hdv/product-HVRV1U/

In that case ... here is another question (I have been wondering, myself):

What is the cheapest avqailable (large sensor) camera that outputs 4:2:2 out of the HDMI port, "hot and live" ???

The follow-on question is, then:

Is there a GOOD little camera that is cheap enough to offset the cost of the "expensive" HDMI portable field recorder ?? Such as an HV30 ?

= Al =

HV30?? see also SONY HDR-XR550 - 240 GB HDD and a very convincing gyro stabilized optical stabilizer.
Have the 64GB internal flash memory model. Love it.

NO !!!

I did not mean to IMPLY that HD30 outputs 4:2:2 on the HDMI ... I was ONLY ASKING if *any* such camera DOES put out 4:2:2 ...

... I DO know that SOME cameras do put out 4:2:2 but I do not know which ones do or how cheap they can be/get.

Sorry for any mis-understanding. I have seen nothing (yet) to imply that a "less than $1400" camera does ...

The HV20/HV30/HV40 cams (I would think) might be likely candidates, for cheap 4:2:2 but have seen/heard NOTHING to support ... just the wildest of hopefully wishfull speculation ... out of the blue.

= Al =

"In order to get the full uncompressed 1920x1080 4:2:2 and stereo PCM audio out of the V1, you must use the HDMI port."

Ya know, you're right. I was seriously thinking about purchasing a MRC1K, but I appreciate your clarification, John, that you'll only get the full uncompressed via the HDMI port from the v1u. I think only pricey items such as Nanoflash do that, but the ridiculous price negates my interest.

Ridiculous price of the Nanoflash really depends on where you stand. Five years ago, the only way to get that technology was in the Codex for $85k. Then Wafian did it for $15k and it was revolutionary. Now the Nanoflash does it for $2995. And yet we call that ridiculous pricing.

Ok, so how to get clean recording out of one of these cameras cheaper than a Nanoflash.

1. Buy camera with HDMI out.
2. Purchase Matrox MX02 box (http://www.videoguys.com/Item/Matrox+MXO2+Mini+Laptop+Kit+with+ExpressCard-34/C4F294E494D423F485D4.aspx)
3. Connect to laptop with ExpressCard34 slot, install, and roll.

The MX02 mini is about to become the i/o box du jour of the portable industry. And it's larger brethren are already finding their way into a lot of recording and post situations. I bought one with MAX technology because it offers faster than realtime H.264 encoding so my web and blu-ray encodes are super fast.

It up-converts, down-converts and cross-converts. It can deal with ProRes, XDCam, RED, and DVCPro based files easily, and Cineform files on the PC. Terrific solution for under $500.

No doubt about it, the Matrox MX02 Mini is a great box. It is not fully supported in Vegas however.

Blackmagic Design has also come out with the Intensity Shuttle that uses the new 4.8Gb/s USB v3.0 port to capture HDMI 1920x1080 4:2:2 10-bit uncompressed video along with PCM HDMI audio. It can also capture to MJPEG to keep the data rate down or you can use NeoHD to capture to Cineform.

It's powered by the USB v3.0 port so it could be used with the appropriate laptop for a "mostly" portable solution. It's also only $199.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

That should be useful in a few years to people on small budgets, but I suspect it will be some time before we see USB3 on used laptops in the $300-$600 range.

It's unfortunate that Vegas isn't able to leverage the MX02 fully, but I don't think capturing outside of Vegas is going to be that big a deal to anyone seriously looking to do this.

With the Blackmagic box, do you have to buy Cineform separately? If so, that negates some of the price advantage. The $450 of the Matrox includes the hardware and software. The Blackmagic is still cheaper, but it's not such a huge gap if the software isn't included.

I agree that USB v3 is way too new to have trickled down to the less expensive laptops. Heck, it hasn't even "trickled up" to many of the expensive laptops.

Yes, you have to buy Cineform NeoHD separately, but I use it for other purposes anyway. I'm really getting into the First Light non-destructive color correction.

The Matrox MX02 Mini records using I-frame-only MPEG2 at up to 300 Mb/s. This should look exceptionally good. I have not had the opportunity to try to load an MX02 file into Vegas, I'd really like to how (or if) Vegas can handle I-frame-only MPEG2 files.

I'd drop $450 on the MX02 in a hearbeat if I knew Vegas would deal with it. I have, however, made some extremely pristine recordings with the Intensity Pro. I didn't "settle" on the Intensity Pro due to any kind of budgetary restraints. It was pretty much the only thing several years ago that did what I needed and the fact that it didn't cost much was just a bonus.

"I'd really like to how (or if) Vegas can handle I-frame-only MPEG2 files. "

John,

Yes it does - and does it well. I have no probs with up to 280 Mbps I-Frame only files from the nanoFlash.

Piotr

I think he meant from the Matrox... (I could be wrong)

I'll let you know. I am installing it today.

Happy to report that Vegas x32 ingested the i-frame files just fine. Unfortunately, Vegas 64bit cannot ingest the files as it does not recognize the codec.

VirtualDub worked fine, as did Prism. Mpeg Streamclip does not recognize the files (no surprise there). VLC worked fine as expected.