Yeah, "3x DVD" is what I'm going to start saying instead of "red laser HD DVD". The good thing is that if it's part of the specification rather than just a hack, it is likely to be consistant for as long as the HD DVD spec lasts.

If Bluray wants to win me over, what it needs is an equivalent officially sanctioned format.

It is rare that I do a project that won't fit on one of these discs.

Does anyone know if this is pronounced "three times" or "three ex"?

I've heard it referred to as DVD 3, but I've also only heard it referred to in conversation at trade events, which have a nomenclature of their own.

im with spot, but being that dvd5 and dvd9 are single and dual layer respectively, i dont know what the 3 stands for.. lol

It looks like the format of red laser HD DVDs burned Why do you always use the term "Red Laser HD-DVD"?
Are there any HD-DVD's that use other then a red laser?

"If Bluray wants to win me over, what it needs is an equivalent officially sanctioned format." ?????

4eyes:

I was under the impression that both BluRay and HD-DVD have adopted a blue laser.

As for the "3x" moniker, here's a quote from the Wikipedia article cited above:

-------------------------------

"3x DVD:

The HD DVD format can also be applied to current red laser DVDs which offers a lower-cost option for distributors; this type of disc is called "3x DVD" as it is capable of up to three times the bandwidth of regular DVD-Video.

3x DVDs are physically identical to normal DVDs, which explains why the cost is lower for the physical media. While 3x DVDs provide the same high definition content, the trade off is that playback time is limited. For instance, on an 8.5 GB DVD you could fit about 85 minutes of 1080p video encoded with VC-1 or AVC at an average bitrate of 13 Mbit/s. This makes the format suitable for subjects such as training videos and home movies, but not suitable for typical wide release studio movies.

It is technically possible for consumers to create HD DVD compatible discs using low cost DVD-R or DVD+R media. At least one guide has been written that walks users through authoring these discs...

-----------------------------

Thankyou, I get it, when Lawrence uses this term he's usually implying a dvd that's burned as a hd-dvd format (udf 2.6) It is technically possible for consumers to create HD DVD compatible discs using low cost DVD-R or DVD+R media. At least one guide has been written that walks users through authoring these discs... Yes, I've made these.

Just to clarify / confuse the issue a bit, UDF 2.6 is not required, and the Toshiba and Macintosh HD DVD playback of red laster DVDs works absolutely fine with lesser / earlier UDF fornats as well.

I, in fact, try to avoid UDF 2.6, since Windows will not intrinsically mount it unless Vistra is installed, even though programs from Ulead, Nero, etc. will burn 2.6 disks on Windows XP.

Larry

When using the other software to burn there isn't a choice other then 2.6. I have the same problem if making a avchd disk for the ps3, they are also in udf 2.6 format.
So your suggesting the HD-DVD structure (if burn to the harddisk), can be written similar to a data disk and this will play in the Toshiba? Because I can use Nero to change the udf format to other than 2.6. I can't test this (otherwise I'd just try it), the Tosh player went back, I would have kept it if I could have at least gotten dvd+r_dl's to work correctly, the spec's only list dvd-r_dl, also would be nice to have better network & usb connectivity because the video output was very clear. Even the expensive Tosh's don't list dvd+r_dl as compatible, only dvd-r_dl. I was able to get 2 dvd+r_dl's to work in the tosh, the others always burned correctly & verified but only either the 1st or 2nd layer would play correctly or they both played correctly except when hitting the layer break. To me was definitely a reading problem. I also tried a few changing the booktype to dvd-rom.
Thanks

"Even the expensive Tosh's don't list dvd+r_dl as compatible, only dvd-r_dl. I was able to get 2 dvd+r_dl's to work in the tosh, the others always burned correctly & verified but only either the 1st or 2nd layer would play correctly or they both played correctly except when hitting the layer break."
========================================================
I do nothing but +r DL and they play perfectly. The layer break is seamless.... you absolutely can not tell where it is. I had A LOT of problems until I switched to verbatim, but since switching I've probably burned somewhere around 45 or 50 disks with zero problems. I know 2 other people that burn +r DL and will tell you the same thing..... zero problems

The breakpoint on a dual layer DVD-R is in a different place than it is on a replicated disc. On a dual layer DVD+R however, the breakpoint is the same as it is on a replicated disc. On single layer discs, I'll use either the +R or -R format, but on a dual layer, I always use +R discs for this reason. This is a good idea on regular SD DVDs as well.

Don't forget that the "reduced resolution" of the 3x DVD (HD DVD on a regular DVD) is what those of us working with HDV are already using. While a studio doing a film to video transfer at 1920 x 1080p, would be smart to use the full HD DVD or Bluray format. HDV projects are already at a resolution that the 3x DVD format can handle quite well.

As many of us HDVers have already figured out, this is the perfect format for many of us. It's quick, cheap, and looks as good as our source material.

Again, the point of this is that burning HD DVD format material onto regular DVDs is part of the HD DVD format now, and playback of any discs made in this format should work consistantly accross all HD DVD players.

With all the tit for tat going on between the HD DVD and Bluray groups, what I would love to see now if for Bluray to also establish a similar official specification for HD content on regular DVDs. Come on now Sony, it already works on some of the players. If it was part of the specification and consistant and reliable accross all players, I'd be as happy with Bluray as I am with HD DVD.

In order to avoid burning UDF formats too recent for Windows XP when using Ulead software (either Movie Factory or Video Studio) I routinely write the HD DVD folder to my local hard disk, and then burn it to single or dual layer red laser DVDs using Nero. The older UDF formats are read by both the Toshiba as well as Windows XP machines, avoiding the need to use Vista as well as avoiding the need to use packet writing software (which I havce found to be maddening).

I also use Verbatim DVD dual layer +R disks, and these play flawlessly on the Toshiba.

Larry

"If Bluray wants to win me over, what it needs is an equivalent officially sanctioned format." ?????

It already exists...
note that HDV resolutions do NOT conform to the spec

I know I can write HDV (1440x1080i) resolution to Bluray using Roxio DVDit Pro HD. It must be part of the spec.

I had A LOT of problems until I switched to verbatim, but since switching I've probably burned somewhere around 45 or 50 disks with zero problems. I know 2 other people that burn +r DL and will tell you the same thing..... zero problemsWell this proves I should try Verbatim. I've been using Sony 2.4x DL's in a Sony 820a (latest firmware). When I burn a 8gig hdv.m2t file the video plays seamlessly as a data disk in the ps3. Standard def for standard dvd players also works. I wonder if it also had something to do with the iso file. Guess I should have tried burning from hd-dvd folders, didn't try that.
Thanks for the information everyone.

Blink3times, I was using Sony dvd burners, can I ask what burner your using to burn the Verbatim DL's? It obviously works better then mine. Although maybe a problem burning an iso file I wouldn't think that should have caused this to happen.
Just a note, I think the compatible version of the red_laser media for Blu-Ray is a avchd disk. I do have that working although converting the videos is time consuming.

HDV resolution is indeed part of the BD or HD DVD spec.
1440 x 1080 and 1920 x 1080 are both included.

CODECS
SMPTE VC-1: AP@L3 and AP@L2
MPEG-2: MP@HL and MP@ML
MPEG-4 AVC: MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1/4.0 and MP@4.1/4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
Max. bitrate 40Mbps (at this time)

HD
1920x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9)
1920x1080x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94-i, 50-i (16:9) MPEG-4 AVC / SMPTE VC-1 only
1440x1080x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9) MPEG-4 AVC / SMPTE VC-1 only
1280x720x59.94-p, 50-p (16:9)
1280x720x24-p, 23.976-p (16:9)

SD
720x480x59.94-i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50-i (4:3/16:9)

"Blink3times, I was using Sony dvd burners, can I ask what burner your using to burn the Verbatim DL's? It obviously works better then mine."
==========================
Plextor 760A

But as I said, I was have terrible layer break problems, and even a bit of stuttering with other DL's burned in my Plextor.

When I switched to Verbatim, my burning method and workflow remained exactly the same.... only the disks were different. So I'm almost sure it's purely a media quality issue as opposed to burner or something else.