HD online edit with Vegas? Help?

Jarred Land wrote on 8/29/2004, 1:04 PM
Hello everyone, long time reader, First time poster.

I got a call today from a friend that has a small project he shot on HDCAM tapes, and audio on Dat. Timecode is the same and synced on both.

Anyhow, he asked me since I tinker with Vegas if we could edit his HD material. I told him I had no way to get the footage into my system so he suggested doing an "offline" to MiniDV, edit it as Minidv then send an "EDL" to a real post house to "ONLINE" the edit. Does that make any sense? There is a very low post budget, so we want to be able to do as much as we can together.

I have edited alot of non-professional projects on Minidv so thats the fun part, but getting there and then back to HD is a whole new ball game to me.

So has anyone done this? Do I call a Post/Dupe house and send them the Dat and HD tape and they can make a Minidv tape, with I wold think Timecode Burn? Anyideas how cheap (ha ha) that process is?

Comments

farss wrote on 8/29/2004, 4:34 PM
No ideas on cost but you can ingest a DV25 proxy using Sony JH3 via firewire, edit that then take project as XML file into Sony XPRI, ingest HD material and finish off and PTT.

You could do the same going out to an Avid HD suite but a bit more bumpy ride. I think you'll need a 3rd party EDL conversion app.

Big question is what is the output medium?
Not much point keeping it all HD if you're only going out to DVD!

Bob.
Jarred Land wrote on 8/29/2004, 10:15 PM
no it has to go out to a D5 HD.

The HD tape has no sound either, the sound guy said it was more expensive to add the audio to the camera (sony 900) but to me I thought it would make things simpler, but if you have ever dealt with an on set audio mixer I am sure you realize its not the best guys to get in an argument with. So I got picture on HD tape and audio on Dat.

The proxy definately needs to be done by a transfer house, this offline edit we will be doing is on Vegas 5 with a normal box, all I have is a DSR-11 DV deck to work with.

I think it should be fine, just gotta get that EDL in a readable format so the Loggers dont kill me...
apit34356 wrote on 8/30/2004, 1:12 AM
Sony has a white paper about using proy files with vegas 5 to edit HD. vegas5 has better file output now for EDL data. If the post house is using a XPRI editor, I believe all the sony standard filters function similiar in XPRI. Please post your experience if you have the time.
farss wrote on 8/30/2004, 1:47 AM
Chris,
see if you can hire a JH3 with firewire. That'll read thhe HDCAM tape into Vegas directly as DV25. What could be simpler!
SonyEPM wrote on 8/30/2004, 7:19 AM
Renting a JH3 deck for a day or two for the offline ingest is probably cheaper than doing a pile of dubs (depends on the number of tapes), but you can work from DV dubs too.

Make sure you read this whitepaper asap: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step2.asp?DID=513

Especially important are the timecode settings for the downconvert- you'll need to have the 24p TC converted to Drop Frame (an HDCAM deck setting), not NDF or anything else. The video EDL is easily exported using the "Export EDL script"- I'm guessing here but if you are delivering on D5 you probably are using AVIDDS or doing a linear assembly, so EDL rather than XML is the way to go.

Ideally you can finish the soundtrack entirely in Vegas, but if that isn't possible you could export separate tracks for a remix, or export as OMF (requires EDL Convert Pro 4).

If you need further help with the process feel free to email me directly at Dr.DropoutATSonypictures.com

Jarred Land wrote on 8/30/2004, 9:31 AM
Wow this support is fantastic, I was about to go out and buy Avid Express today but I think this may work.

So if I rent an JH3 I can hook it up to my box's Firewire / and Vegas will pull a proxy just like it pulls standard dv tape? That is incredible. Will that deck output a Timecode buned DV stream?

This is starting to soiund good.

If that is a piece of cake, then I can rent the deck, dump the tapes in a day, then do the edit with vegas and hope to god I can figure out the online Avid thing.

I guess I gotta rent a Dat deck as well, to pull in the audio. Is that audio going to need to be corrected at all,or is that dat tape going to be 24p?

Another stupid question, if I do the proxy and still have the HD deck, can I use Vegas to ouptut back the cut to the deck as HD somehow? that would save the entire online process. I just cant logically figure out how that works, I assume that I would need to batch load the HD to my system somehow.

Thanks guys.. your help is incredible. I have been doing DV for years and finally taking the next step, and without your help I would be crying in a corner somewhere :)
SonyEPM wrote on 8/30/2004, 10:14 AM
Q: So if I rent an JH3 I can hook it up to my box's Firewire and Vegas will pull a proxy just like it pulls standard dv tape?

A: Yes

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Q: Will that deck output a Timecode burned DV stream?

A: Yes, you can burn original 24p TC and/or downconvert TC.

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Q: I guess I gotta rent a Dat deck as well, to pull in the audio. Is that audio going to need to be corrected at all,or is that dat tape going to be 24p?

A: You won't have to time-shift the DAT audio. Just digitize it and sync to clap mark in the video. Having just done a session like this, I'd advise cutting using the camera audio, then do the DAT-sync once you have picture lock. If the DAT audio and the on camera audio came from the same input (mic/mixer) you might not need the DAT audio at all (except for wild audio).
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Q: if I do the proxy and still have the HD deck, can I use Vegas to ouptut back the cut to the deck as HD somehow?

A: No- the JH-3 is a player only, no recording back to it. If you want a picture reference to cut over during the online, ask the post house what they'd prefer- 24p QT is generally accepted but check to be sure.
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