Well, Digital Rapids claims uncompressed HD: "StreamZHD supports 10-bit and 8-bit uncompressed video, plus a broad range of encoding formats including Windows Media 9, SMPTE VC-1, MPEG-4, AVC (H.264), MPEG-2, QuickTime and more." in their StreamHD server.

I would think that 8-bit uncompressed would be the safest bet. I see that the OP says he's using a card but doesn't mention the server. Uncompressed HD takes a lot of disc throughput but if you've got it Vegas should be able to edit it.

Rob Mack

Spot thanks, typo on my part.

Should have said HD Cam. This StreamZ card has HD Uncompressed input as well as SD.

Thanks
Dave T2

Rob,

Thanks. Does Vegas support input of 4:2:2 in HD. Or do I need to used something else?

Sorry, but the guy who used to do this left and I am winging some things.

Dave T2

Vegas would support an HD AVI file with 422 color sampling, or 444 for that matter. SonyYUV. is a 422 codec, for example. Uncompressed AVI is 444 as far as I know.

As you know, AVI files can use a wide variety of codecs, so your primary task is to choose a codec that the Digital Rapids hardware and Vegas both support. The color sampling shouldn't be a problem but 10bit files could be a waste of effort if you're using an 8bit processing chain. Like all things in this business, you should run tests to see what specifically works. 8 bit encoding would be a good conservative choice and 422 sampling ought to be plenty to support a final encode to mpeg2.

The folks at digital rapids do answer the phone and are quite helpful so you might call them for advice.

I cannot stress enough that you test the workflow ahead of time if you're unsure.

Rob

Same question still stands, to a degree.
Yes, Vegas does support 4:2:2 HD. It's more than just the card though, you'll need a system capable of capturing 4:2:2 uncompressed HD. Vegas won't recognize the card, but the card (based on the link Rob provided) has its own capture software. Vegas will likely recognize the codec, but I'm not familiar with that card.
FWIW, If the only goal is to output to a 16' widescreen, it's not technically related to the codec to which you choose to capture.

Rob,

Yeah, I plan on testing. Right now we are waiting for a film to come in to be transferred and then we have a tight turnaround time. I appreciate your information. I am just trying to wrap my mind around this.

But when doing uncompressed, there is no codec involved, right? I am going to try to test some tomorrow, just doing some homework (litterally) to get ready.

But there might be an issue with Directshow vs. VFW, right?

Thanks again.

Dave T2

Spot,

The capture card and the Vegas software are on different computers. I am using uncompressed to retain as much quality in the final MPEG file as possible.

The playback machine for the final product is an Adtec Edje 4111 HD player. It can play MPEG2 and H264 up to 25mbits (apparently can be pushed to 30) at 1080 60i. It will be playing on a Christie projector onto a 16' x 9' screen, so quality is critical. But as I understand, the Adtec player does not support 4:2:2 for playback, so I will lose some there. Another reason to retain as much as possible up front and the film is from late 1960's, 16mm, so it is going to be lacking a bit of quality anyway. Like I said, this is new to me but I was thrown into the fire and trying to learn as much as possible before I have to perform.

Thanks again.

Dave T2

If you're transferring a 16 mm film scan to HD, you're certainly doing well to avoid most compressed codecs.

The grain plays havoc with most codecs.

Still, i would use the Sheer codec before I used uncompressed HD. Same quality at half the file size (and disk bandwidth requirements), even cross platform if you care about that.

Before you do any editing, clean up the grain and do dustbusting, it will help you tremendously in the MPEG-2 or H.264 encoding later.

I would do that work in AE, but a lot can certainly be done in Vegas.

I don't know if there'd be an issue between directshow and VFW. More experienced voices could tell you. I suspect that the answer here might be that either of the two could be used to encode or decode the file. Once the file exists it either one could do the job

I suppose if the media is truly uncompressed then it shouldn't need a Compressor/Decompressor (CODEC) but the media still needs interpretation. I guess 422 is technically compressed even if all that was done was to sample every second chrominance value. A CODEC would have to calculate the missing values.

similarly, if you have an uncompressed 8bit 444 file and an uncompressed 10 bit 444 file do you need a CODEC to play them on an 8-bit display? How about a 10-bit display? Seems to me that a CODEC is always involved.

Rob

Just a note. While we don't have this particular DR card, we use another older model for SD. Originally purchased to take SDI feeds from a Media100 system and make WMV encodes. Macintoshes couldn't do it in those days. While I don't make use of the card personally, as I remember it Windows Media Encoder could see the feed from the card.

Sounds like someone where Dave works was doing the capture before he left so I guess we should assume that all the technology is in place, it's just the knowledge that's gone.

Rob

I can only add to what John has said. The BBC will not accept 16mm as an acquisition format because of the grain playing havoc with their DVB (mpeg-2) encoding.

At the bitrates your player is working at I wouldn't sweat too much about the quality. The DCI dCinema standard is TIFF seqeunces at some scary data rate. The DCI dCinema projection systems I've seen have quad SDI feeding the projector. On top of that HDCAM is pretty low rent by todays standards, SR is a different matter.

Really you could do better playing out Cinform's high end codecs, they've been tested by Pixel Farm and found to be better than SR.

Having said that for a small screen in an arthouse cinema 720p is quite adequate and about as good as you get from a 35mm print resolution wise. There's one member of this forum who makes a living producing content for cinema projection using eCinema systems which are only 720p. Without out a lot of cleaning up of 16mm you'd do better having less pixels using up the bandwidth.

Bob.

Coursedesign,

I am not familiar with the Sheer Codec so I will search some on that.

I have also thought about skipping the StreamZ and using Apple's Pro Res Codec. We have several Final Cut systems in-house.

Dave T2

Rob, thanks for the information. I was under the impression that Vegas could only read VFW, but maybe I am misunderstanding this.

Also, you are right. The hardware and setup is here, I have been tasked to learn it and use it. I can still contact the previous operator with some questions, but he is sparse sometimes in his responses.

Dave T2

Bob,

Thanks. I am dealing with someone who insists that we should capture uncompressed and playback at 1080 60i. I agree that at this size, a smaller file might do, but I am just the tech on this job.

But thanks to all. You have been a big help. At least I know some questions to ask and some possible pitfalls. We have not seen the film elements yet, so I am not sure of the quality, but assuming it has been stored for abou 15 years and was shot on 16mm back in the 60's, I am not expecting much. Hopefully the telecine colorist will be able to improve some using noise reduction and other tools at his disposal.

Thanks again.

Dave T2

Rob,

Apparently Vegas does not like YUY2. But it does work with UYUY.

Any information you guys can give me about this? Do I need to worry?

Dave T2

I was under the impression that Vegas could only read VFW

Well that's my impression too but I'd word it differently. Vegas will use VFW to to read media, even if it was encoded using directshow. But I'm not writing from very specific knowledge, it's just what I think.

Rob

VfW and DirectShow are APIs (code interfaces), not video formats.

Sheer can be found at SheerVideo.

It comes with Synchromy, the most accurate RGB<->YUV conversion (big trouble-saver for many).

You can see the results on Saturday Night Live...

Thanks, that's a much better explanation than I could give without looking it up. Is there any chance of incompatibility?

Rob Mack

Every new workflow has risks until tested.

Use the 20-day full-function eval download, that might even be enough for your first project...

"It comes with Synchromy, the most accurate RGB<->YUV conversion (big trouble-saver for many)."

Could you elaborate on that?

I'm trying to fathom if that's of any advantage using Vegas. My understanding is that Vegas always works in a RGB space no matter what it's fed. Would converting from YUV to a RGB codec externally yield better results?

Bob.