HDR monitoring

Robb-R wrote on 9/2/2018, 8:09 AM

I've uprgaded to Vegas 16 and so far so good. Been a user since version 6. Upgraded mostly for the HDR on my LG 65" OLED and it looks very straightforward and promising having rendered files that display the HDR banner on the display except, the colors gamut ect, are off because I'm not monitoring in rec 2020. The Blackmagic mini-monitor 4k is the obvious choice.

Can someone confirm that it's still not supported. If someone from Magix support could chime in on when this might happen please do.

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 9/2/2018, 8:22 AM

I'm in the same boat. I've been in contact with Magix about this and they have assured me that support for more 10 bit display options is on the way. There is a lot of work going on under the hood to make Vegas the best and easiest (most compatible) HDR solution.

Last changed by fr0sty on 9/2/2018, 10:57 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Robb-R wrote on 9/2/2018, 9:03 AM

Thanks for the quick response frosty. Sounds very interesting. Hope to hear more on this very soon.

Thanks, R.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/2/2018, 9:57 AM

We will see if and how the Blackmagic HDR compatible cards will be supported in future. For the two professional BM cards the cheaper mini monitor Decklink 4K card seems not to work with the actual build at all, as it has been reported by an user in the videotreffpunkt forum. The more expensive Decklink 4K Extreme 12G works with the 32bit floating point mode and ACES 1, IF there is a Color Space conversion enabled in the project settings (regardless if you use the conversion to rec709 or rec2020).

You have to distinguish if you are talking about the preview monitor for editing with Vegas, or for the final rendered result. For the rendered result the HEVC encoder delivers now the required metadata that allows an HDR-TV to switch to HDR rec2020 if one playback the rendered file. That should be fine for the LG.

For the preview you may need a monitor that can be switched to HDR manually - and here I use the Atomos Sumo what can be set to every HDR mode manually (so both PQ and HLG).

The issue is that the ACES mode requires a lot of performance, and that you have to reduce the preview quality in a dramatically way. That is why I use an Atomos Sumo as control monitor too. Because with that combination I can use the 8bit mode in Vegas, can use the Decklink card but also every GPU of today, have slog or vlog or HLG in the timeline - and the Sumo makes the transformation to rec709 or rec2020 (PQ or HLG) while I still have the performance from the 8bit mode. That is great to cut and edit the footage. For Grading you will have to switch to 32bit floating point ACES1 and use the transformation to your Target Gamut. And adjust luminance and colors.

For the future there may be other solutions too, we will see.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/4/2018, 8:44 AM

Now with the latest build 261, a new function is the "preview HDR using the 10-bit OpenGL pixel Format". Means that using prosumer HDR Monitors like the DELL UP2718Q with true 1000nits and with cards like NVIDIA Quadro Pxxx / AMD RadeonPro WXx100 GPUs should allow an HDR preview in HDR10.

I cannot test that here since I do not have the Dell. But I have seen that I can switch my older AMD R9 390X to 10bit and can enable HDR in Win10 64bit for this card and my 10bit HDR capable Sumo.

Does anyone have a Dell UP2718Q by now?

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Robb-R wrote on 9/4/2018, 3:18 PM

That was fast. Thanks for your input on this Wolfgang. I'll download later and have a look.

Robb-R wrote on 9/4/2018, 3:22 PM

Also, in Windows 7 64 bit can I enable HDR? I have a Quadro P620 installed.

Robb-R wrote on 9/4/2018, 5:14 PM

Never mind. looks like I have to upgrade to 10.

fr0sty wrote on 9/4/2018, 5:31 PM

Even with Windows 10, you still need a pro-level GPU to view HDR 10 full screen in Vegas, as only DirectX apps that are running full screen are able to be used in 10 bit mode on cheaper GPUs. The Vegas team is well aware of this and it is likely that they might offer something to help with that in the future, but for now your best bet is a Radeon Pro or Quadro GPU and Windows 10. Even enabling HDR mode on cheaper GPUs doesn't work, even though Windows will flag the TV to show that it is in HDR mode, it really isn't.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/5/2018, 5:12 AM

Also, in Windows 7 64 bit can I enable HDR? I have a Quadro P620 installed.

The newer models of the Quadro Cards support HDR. And Win7 seems to support HDR beginning with 2009.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro

Unfortunately, I do not find your P620 on this list in Wikipedia.

Even with Windows 10, you still need a pro-level GPU to view HDR 10 full screen in Vegas, as only DirectX apps that are running full screen are able to be used in 10 bit mode on cheaper GPUs. The Vegas team is well aware of this and it is likely that they might offer something to help with that in the future, but for now your best bet is a Radeon Pro or Quadro GPU and Windows 10. Even enabling HDR mode on cheaper GPUs doesn't work, even though Windows will flag the TV to show that it is in HDR mode, it really isn't.

The new implemented feature is exactly ""preview HDR using the 10-bit OpenGL pixel Format"" should allow us to use consumer and prosumer Equipment for HDR too. As I have stated, I can use my older AMD R9 390X card to view HDR10. If I would buy today, I would go for the W7100 very likely:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-wx-7100

and would choose the Dell UP2718Q maybe. Even if this monitor supports HDR10 only (and not HLG).

Last changed by Wolfgang S. on 9/5/2018, 5:12 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/6/2018, 2:56 AM

Additional comment: the Quadro Pxxx Cards should work and deliver HDR. My older Kepler Card Quadro K4200 seems to deliver not HDR really, but only 10bit. So 10bit and HDR should not be mixed up really - and the Wikipedia link that I postet above is not actal Maybe too.

For the quadro Cards one has to stick to the newer M or P Quadro Cards for HDR support, at least according to what I hear.

This will be an ongoing testing, until we know in some more detail what works here and what not.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

fr0sty wrote on 9/6/2018, 3:46 AM

Most consumer cards only allow HDR in Direct3D mode, OpenGL 10 bit is reserved for the pro-level cards.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/6/2018, 5:28 AM

and with cards like NVIDIA Quadro Pxxx / AMD RadeonPro WXx100 GPUs should allow an HDR preview in HDR10.

That is why I stated here Quadro Cards from the latest P serie and AMD RadeonPro WXx100 Cards.

 

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems