HDR / Preview Oddness

Phil_P wrote on 3/28/2023, 3:04 AM

Greetings all,

I am using 4K HDR on Win 11 and it is working great (65" TV set to HDR and calibrated, nVidia 4090). It is just so much nicer working this way, especially for my DAW work, instead of using multiple screens.

Vegas latest 20 build

I have what you could call a minor issue with Vegas full screen preview, it could well be some setting that I have not had to mess with before but here is what is happening:

Preview window, all good while editing.

When I switch to full screen preview, it also seems fine BUT when escaping out of full screen preview, all of Vegas goes dark and stays that way. In fact the whole display stays dark in other applications too. When I say dark I mean, quite a lot darker than normal, (not black).

I have tried a number of things, like disabling Windows Auto HDR etc.

The only way I have found to bring things back to normal is to turn of Win HDR and turn it back on again.

I wondered if you guys may have any advice on this. I know there are some folks here who have a lot more experience in this area than I do.

tbh. I have worked for a long time without using Windows HDR but it does show some improvements on applications that support it.

My system info is in the signature.

Any thoughts welcome. Thank you. P.

Comments

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 7:02 AM

Hi Phil,

I have not seen that up to now, and have tried to repro it with both my Sony HDR TV (connected by HDMI to my laptop, you see the specifications in my signature). Up to now I have not been sucessfull to repro it.

My settings are very likely slightly different. I use my laptop with an OLED monitor and with an nvidia RTX 3070 Ti, the laptop monitor can be switched both to SDR and HDR. The processor has also an internal GPU.

For the test to repro it, I have connected my Sony HDR TV with the laptop, using and 2.1 HDMI cable.

Both the laptop monitor but also the Sony HDR TV have been set to HDR10. Both in Windows HDR, and the Sony HDR TV is also in the TV settings on HDR10 and rec2020. If I start Vegas Pro 20, with the Vegas interface typically on my laptop monitor, I can put the HDR preview on both monitors. Works fine here, without the issue that you have described.

But I have also tried to put the Vegas GUI on the Sony HDR TV, and to run either the internal or the secondary preview on the Sony HDR TV. With or with HDR enabled in the internal GUI preview windows. I have here a HDR preview, but if I switch back I not seen that Vegas goes dark. In other words: I have not been able to repro that up to now.

Please can you give me some more details:

- how many monitors do you run? Is there only the 65" HDR-TV that you use as monitor? Or do there also a second PC-Monitor? Even if you said you do not want to have multiple sceens.

- is the PC-Monitor a SDR or also a HDR monitor? Is it set to SDR or HDR

- is your graphical interface of Vegas on the 65" HDR-TV or on your PC monitor?

- is the internal preview settings for HDR enabled when you switch to the full screen?

- I assume you have Windows HDR enabled at least on the 65" HDR-TV, since otherwise the project would not work as HDR project. What are the Windows settings for a PC monitor, if you use one?

Which nvidia driver do you use?

fr0sty wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:30 AM

This sounds like a Windows bug to me, since it also affects other apps even after closing VEGAS.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:38 AM

@Yelandkeil

while it is appropriate to help and support users, it is not appropriate to "upgrade" an text with assumptions from your own side like what occupation the threadstarter has, or what kind of footage (SDR) he is editing if the issue is about 4K HDR .

The request for further information is a legitime approach. If you think that this is not required, then this is up to you.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:41 AM

This sounds like a Windows bug to me, since it also affects other apps even after closing VEGAS.

Could be that it is a Windows bug.

But whatever it is - @fr0sty have you seen this behavior of Vegas? I have not been able to repro that up to now.

fr0sty wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:43 AM

I did see one other user recently posting about something similar, but I cannot remember who they were unfortunately. I will dig around and see if I can locate the thread. Might have even been on Facebook.

Phil_P wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:45 AM

This sounds like a Windows bug to me, since it also affects other apps even after closing VEGAS.

It affects other applications only after the issue has happened in Vegas i do not see the issue in any other applications

Phil_P wrote on 3/28/2023, 9:54 AM

Thanks Wolfgang.

I use the 4K Tv as my sole monitor now. There is so much space I no longer need anything else.

Connected to the 4090 via HDMI. Not sending any audio through HDMI though as I have a dedicated audio device.

Drivers are always latest. My system is meticulously maintained as I use it for my daily DAW work.

I didn’t see this behaviour in any other applications. Only after hitting a full screen preview in Vegas. Then it has the effect of making everything darker as explained.

Thank you.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 10:15 AM

Thanks Wolfgang.

You are welcome

I use the 4K Tv as my sole monitor now. There is so much space I no longer need anything else.

Ok. I know a lot of users who run an HDR-TV as preview unit. But everyday we expand our knowledge. And right - why not use such a large TV as solo monitor? Works for sure.

Connected to the 4090 via HDMI. Not sending any audio through HDMI though as I have a dedicated audio device.

For sure.

Drivers are always latest. My system is meticulously maintained as I use it for my daily DAW work.

Unfortunately, the latest driver can also be an issue, since later driver may bring in also some troubles sometime. Especially for nvidia cards, I have read here a lot of times the recommendation to go back to older driver. However, I cannot know if that would bring anything for your problem. In addition, you use a brandnew GPU, where we had some issues reported by other users.

Not sure if we should recommend you to try older nvidia drivers really. If you decide to do that, I would recommend you to download the actual driver you use now before you test older drivers - to be able to go back in a fast way to the existing driver. Or to make an image of your system drive, before you do that.

I didn’t see this behaviour in any other applications. Only after hitting a full screen preview in Vegas. Then it has the effect of making everything darker as explained.

Thank you.

I have not seen that either. But I use on my system the nvidia driver 512.15.

I have also tried to select my Sony HDR TV as the main and only monitor, using my laptop. Even with the GUI of Vegas located on the Sony HDR TV, I have not been able to repro your finding.

fr0sty wrote on 3/28/2023, 10:32 AM

It appears Yelandkeil reported something kinda similar (though using AMD hardware) in the beta forum, so there's that to go by... he has to uncheck and recheck HDR mode in windows to fix it as well. Being that it is present now across 2 different GPU manufacturers, that lends itself more to being a Windows bug as well.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 11:27 AM

Are you able to repro it?

Phil_P wrote on 3/28/2023, 2:24 PM

It appears Yelandkeil reported something kinda similar (though using AMD hardware) in the beta forum, so there's that to go by... he has to uncheck and recheck HDR mode in windows to fix it as well. Being that it is present now across 2 different GPU manufacturers, that lends itself more to being a Windows bug as well.

Because someone else has similar issue on a different system means it is a Windows bug? No it doesn't.

As I mentioned originally, the issue happens (or is caused by) only and exclusively Vegas. I have already mentioned this twice following up your "it must be a Windows bug" replies. Just to be clear. If it is Windows which of course it is related to, Vegas is the only application I have that is causing it.

So if you have another thread with something similar (I did search before posting of course) then please direct me to it. I only posted in the hope that someone may have come across the issue at some point or be willing to try and repro it. I work in QA testing, I posted this as a last resort to see if any of the guys who actually work in 4K with similar systems would be willing to help.

@Wolfgang S. Thank you for the assistance and time to investigate, much appreciated. This is not driver related. It has been going on for a while since the last few drivers. Studio / Game Ready make no difference, (which of course is expected as they are eventually basically the same driver minus a few barely relevant things).

Never mind guys, not a huge issue, I will figure it out.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/28/2023, 3:05 PM

As I mentioned originally, the issue happens (or is caused by) only and exclusively Vegas. I have already mentioned this twice following up your "it must be a Windows bug" replies. Just to be clear. If it is Windows which of course it is related to, Vegas is the only application I have that is causing it.

So if you have another thread with something similar (I did search before posting of course) then please direct me to it. I only posted in the hope that someone may have come across the issue at some point or be willing to try and repro it. I work in QA testing, I posted this as a last resort to see if any of the guys who actually work in 4K with similar systems would be willing to help.

@Wolfgang S. Thank you for the assistance and time to investigate, much appreciated. This is not driver related. It has been going on for a while since the last few drivers. Studio / Game Ready make no difference, (which of course is expected as they are eventually basically the same driver minus a few barely relevant things).

Never mind guys, not a huge issue, I will figure it out

The point is not, that we are not willing to help. But to be able to help, we will need a repro for the development team. That is, how it works.

It does not matter if the error takes place due to an interaction between Vegas and an driver, or Vegas and Windows, or Vegas and a specific hardware.

As long as we do not know what drives such an error, nothing should be excluded. And nobody should jump to a fast conclusion. But to come up with some thesis, what may cause the error, could be helpful.

Phil_P wrote on 3/28/2023, 3:13 PM

Honestly guys please forget about it and don't waste any more time and thanks again. I will leave this here in case anyone else searches and comes up with similar. Or incase anyone else wishes to try to repro. And of course when I find a solution I will post back.

Steps to repro:

Turn on Windows HDR
Using a single monitor Open Vegas 20 Preview full screen
Escape from Full screen preview
Vegas screen goes dark and is followed by all Windows until HDR is toggled in Windows
(Note: you may not be aware of the darkness if your HDR display is not calibrated correctly, or if there is no significant difference between regular and HDR on your display)

Cheers, P.
:-)

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/29/2023, 12:47 AM

(Note: you may not be aware of the darkness if your HDR display is not calibrated correctly, or if there is no significant difference between regular and HDR on your display)

Some more questions:

- do you run SDR or HDR10 projects in Vegas, if you see that?

- is the "calibration" of the HDR-TV done on the Windows 11 level - so is it more a profiling, where the file is stored in the color management of Windows 11? Or was it done on the level of the HDR-TV, stored in the HDR-TV?

fr0sty wrote on 3/29/2023, 9:02 AM

It appears Yelandkeil reported something kinda similar (though using AMD hardware) in the beta forum, so there's that to go by... he has to uncheck and recheck HDR mode in windows to fix it as well. Being that it is present now across 2 different GPU manufacturers, that lends itself more to being a Windows bug as well.

Because someone else has similar issue on a different system means it is a Windows bug? No it doesn't.

As I mentioned originally, the issue happens (or is caused by) only and exclusively Vegas. I have already mentioned this twice following up your "it must be a Windows bug" replies. Just to be clear. If it is Windows which of course it is related to, Vegas is the only application I have that is causing it.

So if you have another thread with something similar (I did search before posting of course) then please direct me to it. I only posted in the hope that someone may have come across the issue at some point or be willing to try and repro it. I work in QA testing, I posted this as a last resort to see if any of the guys who actually work in 4K with similar systems would be willing to help.

@Wolfgang S. Thank you for the assistance and time to investigate, much appreciated. This is not driver related. It has been going on for a while since the last few drivers. Studio / Game Ready make no difference, (which of course is expected as they are eventually basically the same driver minus a few barely relevant things).

Never mind guys, not a huge issue, I will figure it out.

I too work in QA, and just because VEGAS is the only app you have that causes the bug does not mean that it is the sole cause of the bug... It just means that it's the only app you have installed that does the right combination of things to trigger it.

Further proof it is a Windows bug, not a VEGAS bug.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/tcdd11/very_dark_screen_after_playing_a_game_in_hdr_mode/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button