HDV Capture - Why the Scene Splits?

Serena wrote on 4/27/2008, 7:34 PM

That's odd. How long are the captured files? Varying lengths (as you expect) or just lots of short files? Are the splits actually at scene changes? You might want to have a try of HDVSplit (free download).

johnmeyer wrote on 4/27/2008, 8:38 PM

I get these all the time (with scene detection turned off) although I used Vegas 7.0d. The capture has always been very sensitive, and I have no idea why it does this or how to cure the problem. Fortunately, I don't see any evidence of corruption, and certainly no dropped frames (which with HDV is a disaster).

It's a bug, I think.

rtbond wrote on 4/28/2008, 1:45 AM

Hi John,

OK, good to know it is not just me. Have you reported the behavior? I if not, I will.

The file lengths vary, from very long (10s of minutes) to relatively short (30 secs).

Although I have successfully used it before, I remember reading some recent posts about some issues with HDVSplit based captures having poor performance issues (time line or rendering, can't remember which)

--Rob

DJPadre wrote on 4/28/2008, 4:34 AM

im with johnmeyer on this..
i dont know if its a timecode thing, but i DO think its an IBP GOP issue where the GOP has been broken somewhere.

I dont have problems with teh captured clips, and they can be stitched back together jsut by grouping, but it IS annoying when your capturing entire tapes with scne detection off then youre left with 30 odd clips.. :(

ushere wrote on 4/28/2008, 4:57 AM

ditto here. real pita - and what's worse, most of my breaks (when they occur) seem to be in mid shot, so there's no tc break or anything to trigger it.

i really do hope that they get these little, highly annoying bugs sorted out soon. frankly i don't give a toss about future developments such as 64 bit if they can't get 32 bit working properly....

a. capture breaks as per this thread

b. idiosyncrasies with m2t on timeline - black frames, no thumbnails, red frames, etc.,

c. print to tape with no-recompress on

those are my annoyances,

what's yours?

leslie

Terry Esslinger wrote on 4/28/2008, 11:14 AM

I have just started with HDV (FX1) and have discovered the same problem except that I cannot 'sew' the different segments back together again as there seems to be a short segment missing where the break occurs. Are you telling me that there is no cure for this at this time?
Using 7d

nolonemo wrote on 4/28/2008, 11:43 AM

I capture HDV with scene detection on, but I have had captures with splits in the middle of a scene, but on recapture there were no splits. Go figure.

rtbond wrote on 4/29/2008, 3:23 AM

I forgot to mention the camera in use in my case is a Sony HDR-HC1.

I submitted this issue as a question to Tech Suppport.

--Rob

johnmeyer wrote on 4/29/2008, 7:37 AM

In your correspondence with Sony, refer them to this thread so they can see that others have the problem as well.

Laurence wrote on 4/29/2008, 8:07 AM

With my Z7, if I try to capture using the Vegas HDV capture, I get hundreds of small clips each one less than a second long. This is regardless of whether or not I select scene splitting.

HDVSplit works ok so I haven't really worried much about it, but yeah, count me as another one who has scene splitting problems in Vegas.

DJPadre wrote on 4/29/2008, 9:20 AM

im unsing a canon A1 on 2 different systems... same results, different breaks though

Mahesh wrote on 4/30/2008, 1:47 AM

I use Sony HC3. I get splits on a continuously recorded tape. Pain as, quite often, a few frames are missing.

blink3times wrote on 4/30/2008, 5:02 AM

HC3, HC7, HV20 and I get the same thing from time to time on all of them.

Additionally, (and I know a few others have reported similar to this) with my HC3, when scene split is on, the scenes are split consistently 3 frames late.

I just plain don't use the Vegas capture utility anymore for HDV.... there always seems to be some kind of problem with it, and it's something that Sony really needs to bone up a little. I would love to see it worked on... and added to as well. It would be nice to see full logging abilities and batch capture included. Avid Liquid for example has a pretty detailed and in-depth logging tool with pre and post viewers, in/out markers, batch abilities... etc.

In general I have never really been too big a fan of capture programs that physically split the video upon capture so that you end up with with 200 or 300 different files. I always seem to have some kind of problem with them somewhere down the line.

The capture programs that seem to be pretty bullet proof overall (from what I have seen anyway) are the ones that don't actually split the video, but instead capture as one continuous tape and write an additional file with the scene split info. Of course these capture systems are not at all universal and are tailored strictly for the program they are written for, but this system does seem to work better.

ushere wrote on 4/30/2008, 6:06 AM

bx3,

liquid will do batch capture with hdv?

leslie

blink3times wrote on 4/30/2008, 2:56 PM

Sure does. In fact Liquid has one of the better capture/logging systems that I have seen. It's certainly NOT the easiest thing in the world to use and there is little chance of a person operating it without consulting the manual the first few times... but once you get the hang of it...

Liquid actually has 2 capture systems and they both do DV as well as HDV. One system is called EZcapture and it's pretty simple to operate.... much like Vegas. It's for "quickies" when you just need a capture without too much precision. But then it has what's called the logger which is a fairly in-depth capture system that allows batch, mark in/out... and all the rest of that.

ushere wrote on 4/30/2008, 5:03 PM

thanks bx3,

so if i read correctly, i can simply punch in my i/o's from an edl in liquid, batch capture various tapes, then open up the takes in vegas?

if that's the case, it might be worth the cost of buying liquid!

i really can't understand why vegas can't do it as well. i've read that there's problems with long gop's, but if liquid can, why not vegas.

anyone?

btw. can you batch capture hdv in avid express hd pro? can i use these captures in vegas? one of my clients has a copy for sale (he moved to vegas!!).....

blink3times wrote on 4/30/2008, 6:40 PM

so if i read correctly, i can simply punch in my i/o's from an edl in liquid, batch capture various tapes, then open up the takes in vegas?

NO!

Liquid captures as M2V/wav. Vegas can not open M2V

ushere wrote on 5/1/2008, 3:09 AM

BUGGER!

what about avid express?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/1/2008, 5:10 AM

Have you found the answer yet? The issue are droped frames in HDV, when you have a droped frame the Vegas capture tool will start a new file on your harddisk.

That is not really a bug in the capture tool, but a weakness in the HDV format. It would not bring anything if that staid in one piece - the droped frame is lost anyway (in the worst, you loose 12 frames in case of a 12-GOP if the lost frame is an I-frame, in the best you loose only one frame, if the lost frame is not an I-frame).

blink3times wrote on 5/1/2008, 5:40 AM

"what about avid express?"

Express is in the same boat as liquid.... it's being discontinued. The difference being that it was officially announced with express. They have not yet officially announced Liquid as discontinued.

Express owners are being offered an upgrade price to Media Composer (it's a whopping price tag otherwise!)

farss wrote on 5/1/2008, 6:01 AM

So now might be a good time to buy a copy of Express and get a cheap upgrade to Composer?

Bob.

jdinkins wrote on 5/6/2008, 7:43 AM

I am not looking at Vegas right this second so forgive me if this is a little off.

Don't go to the usual Tools/Preferences.

Look at the HD Capture window. Click PREFS. It's a button on the upper left side.

Once you click that there are only like 3 tabs. On the first tab go all the way to the bottom and uncheck scene detection.

Take care.