HDV to DVD ws renders crash

Former user wrote on 11/3/2012, 1:09 PM

I have found you get better results by breaking it into steps.

Downrez to a lossless codec first, then render to your DVD format.

I seem to get better quality this way.

Dave T2

JBird wrote on 11/3/2012, 1:29 PM

That sounded good, so I tried rendering to an .avi file 720x480 at 16:9. It still crashed, just like when I try rendering to the .mpg2. Hmmmm.

mikkie wrote on 11/3/2012, 2:09 PM

I forgot to mention in the other thread, I tried every frame size & just about every format I could think of with no joy at all.

diverG wrote on 11/3/2012, 5:49 PM

Are you working with VP11 or VP12? I have found that VP11 will render out to mpeg2 WS for DVD whilst VP12 falls over. I've found this on two separate installations of VP12 and raised a ticket with SCS

mikkie wrote on 11/4/2012, 11:18 AM

Yea! Latest build still works!

To recap [as briefly as I can] since this is confusingly split over a couple of threads [hadn't seen this thread before my initial comments @JBird -- sorry]....
Adding ATI Cat 12.9 beta drivers broke encoding using the Mainconcept mpg2 encoder with the DVDA templates in the latest build of VP 11 32 & 64 [I don't know if other mpg2 encoding was broken as well]. It occurred every time, with a freeze between 3-8% progress that left no error logs [I could find], & nothing abnormal I could see using Sysinternals Process Explorer [including threads]. I tried several size & format alternatives on the timeline to no effect. I tried disabling everything I could disable to no effect. After several hours of this I restored a partition image backup to put things back [using Cat 12.8] & everything worked again.

FFWD a month & AMD/ATI released Cat 12.10 & Cat 12.11 Beta -- after backup I added Cat 12.10 [in case of problems I Didn't want to bother Sony techs with what might be a Beta issue]. The freeze encoding mpg2 was back, but only in VP 11 64, & not until 97% progress. I saw this as a trend with the ATI drivers -- ATI drivers [for supported cards] now included win7 & win8, with some changes to video processing related stuff that apparently didn't work in win8, including abandoning the Avivo add-ons. I had been on the fence re: VP 12, but bought the upgrade when the trial worked encoding mpg2 -- I could/can use VP 11 32 & VP 12 64 as needed. I was concerned VP 12 Bld 394 would break mpg2 again.

After fixing last week's SF update, & after doing a partition image backup, added VP 12 Bld. 394 & mpg2 still works, with CPU % = 60-90 & GPU % = ~38. As a bonus, while I didn't see it in the release notes, the Mainconcept AVC encoder works now using the Blu-Ray templates with GPU assist on. I haven't had a chance to evaluate quality compared to the Sony encoder, nor have I checked to see if all or what bit rates work, but it is faster, & offers at least one bit rate choice that's higher than the Sony encoder's cap. Previously the MC BD template produced non-spec AVC that DVDA wouldn't accept. FWIW using the MC AVC encoder BD template I see CPU & GPU % both in the 50-60 range.

mikkie wrote on 11/4/2012, 11:27 AM

Purely FWIW, Purely in case it helps anyone -- Adding ATI drivers...

[Wanted to add this separately, along with emphasizing YMMV, especially as regards VP. ]

ATI graphics cards can offer DXVA acceleration as well as Avivo &/or Stream + recently OpenCL. I don't know if it continues with the 7xxx series, but earlier models below [i.e. cheaper than] the x870 [e.g. 4870, 5870, 6870] often included a separate on-card chip for video handling/processing. [That's sort of the HD in card names or models I believe starting with the 2xxx series] GPU assist for video processing can happen at different levels using 1 or more of these different means & may or may not show up in GPU% using GPU-Z etc. -- you may be able to tell by monitoring voltages [e.g. HWMonitor] or Core Clock freq. [GPU-Z] etc. So I take a Holistic approach, trying to make sure everything's working, but more than likely some, or maybe even most of this may well be overkill, especially as it relates *just* to Vegas Pro.

When you run the ATI driver setup app it expands the included files, normally to a C:\AMD folder. Drill down into that folder & you'll find a Packages\Apps folder. In that Apps folder you'll find folders like AVT64 [& OpenCL64], containing a .msi setup file, which in this example is AVT64.msi. I use Universal Extractor on those .msi files [ http://legroom.net/software/uniextract ], then compare the results to make sure everything was updated -- normally not everything was, & this happens across our PCs. This may be a glitch, or it may be current files are already up to date, since many do not have version numbers, & ATI updates [changes] the dates with every Cat version. For the files that were not updated I use Task Mgr. to stop any ATI processes [e.g. atiedxx.exe, atiesrxx.exe, CCC.exe, & MOM.exe (it always bothers me killing MOM)], then run that .msi file, & very often it does work to update files, leading me to believe it's an install glitch. Other times running that .msi file doesn't work, but since I'm there already I'll copy the newer dated file over the older ones, just to be sure. I don't add stuff I don't find installed already -- you will probably not be able or want to use every package in that Apps folder.

Step 2... ATI for years has enabled/disabled some of the controls that appear in CCC [Catalyst Control Center] using simple string values in the registry. Sometimes this is good sense, e.g. they disable fan controls for cards that don't support it, but they also do a bit of marketing. If some setting makes the average video look better for the average new user, they'll set it & disable the control so a less experienced user can't mess things up. If by compromising quality they can achieve better specs for advertising purposes, e.g. game fps, they set that too & disable the control. Some of these controls have to do with video processing, e.g. auto color, though I don't know if it goes beyond display to effect encoding results or speed or % of GPU assist etc. -- effecting display is enough for me to enable the controls & turn that stuff off.

To enable those controls, after appropriately backing up whatever [e.g. at least setting a restore point in win7], fire up Regedit [type regedit in the run box & hit OK], & go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet & search for "_NA" [without quotes]. Check to make sure you're in a key that relates to your ATI card -- you will get a couple of hits for stuff like Windsock that obviously won't apply. The 1st hit I get is "3to2Pulldown_NA" -- you want to look for values with that trailing or appended _NA that = 1, & change that 1 to 0 -- with the exception of "AutoColorDepthReduction_NA" if it's not a string value = 1 don't bother with it [set that autocolor value to 0 as well]. Some of the changes might not show up in CCC, but in that case I never worried about it or had problems because of it. Sometimes you might enable something that doesn't apply to your card, e.g. Bluestretch with a 4870, & in that case once it becomes apparent you can just as easily hide that control by setting it to = 1, then just remember to skip it in the future. In what I take to be a glaring flip-off, CCC scolds me for using an Intel CPU where their Steady Video controls would be -- drilling down to the UMD\DXVA keys I add CameraShake_NA & CameraShake2_NA string values set to = 1 & that goes away. Re-boot to load the new registry settings & bring MOM back to life [whew - glad you're back MOM].

Notes:
Many fans [fanboys] only install new drivers in Safe Mode after removing the old ones, &/or after using some drive cleaner -- IMHO if you want to, suit yourself. Maybe not doing that is responsible for not everything updating when I install drivers on top of another version? But I've been there, done that stuff, not a fan.

Going backwards to an earlier version is not always possible, doesn't always work, & *may* involve removing & reinstalling .NET in extreme cases, because adding new drivers adds new .NET entries & often files. I've found that using Paragon apps to backup & if necessary restore the partition works better/faster *for me*.

Sometimes [rarely] after installing a new driver set CCC will not start... I've always found it's worked to start the ATI install mgr, uninstall/remove CCC, delete the CCC folder on my hdd, then start the install mgr. & install CCC again.

JBird wrote on 11/5/2012, 12:44 PM

DiverG - I skipped 11 and am experiencing this problem on V12. This never happened on 10, and I only get it when rendering an HDV project to DVDws.
I have AMD Cat version 12.10 The problem was the same with whatever version I had prior to updating to 12.10 as it is now. I installed the update last week.
2D Driver Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Direct3D Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
OpenGL Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
If I follow the instructions you have posted, do I risk losing my display (it does not matter if the original driver setup is saved if I can't see a display to find & restore it).

mikkie wrote on 11/5/2012, 8:24 PM

If you haven't already maybe check the other threads here in the forum for suggestions like reducing the amount of RAM used for previews & reducing win7's display features, e.g. turning off Aero -- might not help but easy enough to try.

> "This never happened on 10,"

VP 10 used the ATI GPU assist, but back then it was all DXVA & maybe Avivo/Stream -- ATI hadn't switched to OpenCL yet [& Nvidia had Cuda] so Sony didn't have any reason to support it.

> "If I follow the instructions you have posted, do I risk losing my display (it does not matter if the original driver setup is saved if I can't see a display to find & restore it)."

If you're talking about making sure the app packages install, should have no effect except for when you're playing or working with video -- Windows itself doesn't use that stuff otherwise. [The processes I close do use some of that stuff, but those processes can be closed with no effect on Windows itself -- in fact some people leave off installing the CCC etc. in the 1st place.] Back when win7 was new I had some problems working with video because the ATI files in the 2 Common Files folders were several versions older than my drivers. I've been manually making sure they updated since, so I have no idea what kind of problems could result today. One easy check might be to see if 2 of the files in C:\Program Files (x86)\AMD APP\bin\x86_64 are dated 9/28/12 -- that would mean the OpenCL install included with 12.10 at least ran. The 5 files I have in C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\ATI Technologies\Multimedia are all dated the same [9/28/12] -- some of the files in my 64 bit Common Files folder don't match that date since they're from the last version of Avivo I got my hands on.

As far as the registry changes go, I *think* they'd have less chance of any effect on the VP freeze, but I always change them because what good is it if your video doesn't look the same on your screen as everywhere else? I don't expect anyone's [HD]TV to have ATI hardware filtering the picture, so I don't want to filter it on my monitor either. The danger any time you edit the registry is if you change the wrong values -- people use registry cleaners, occasionally delete the wrong stuff, & if they're lucky only break an app or 3 -- if they're not lucky Windows won't start. If you change the values in "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\amdkmdag" that end in _NA & = 1, if you change them to 0, the most that will happen is they'll show up in the Catalyst Control Center. If you change one of the other values [without _NA] to 0, you could conceivably break the ATI driver -- if you change a key for something other than your ATI driver, there's a good chance you broke something. The amdkmdag key I listed is only one of several, but the one I'm most sure you'll have so it makes a decent example -- the contents of the other ATI keys with value names ending in _NA look Very similar.

The safest way to edit the registry is to back up, & the surest way to back up Windows registry is to back up Windows -- I like Paragon apps while many swear by Acronis or the free EASEUS backup app but there are really several choices, & everyone should be backing up with something anyway. All 3 can make an image of the partition with Windows on it, *sort of* like an ISO image containing the raw data from a CD/DVD/BD. All 3 let you burn boot discs &/or create bootable USB sticks to restore a backup, which puts things back *Exactly* as they were when the backup was made. ERUNT lets you back up just the registry, & you can restore it from a Windows setup disc by going to repair console, or using a bootable CD/DVD/USB stick -- directions are in the ERUNT docs. That is a bit more of a nerd or geek route. If you set a Restore Point in win7, you *should* be able to restore it after starting Windows in Safe Mode -- rarely I've had it fail, but then all it takes is failing once when you REALLY need it. How safe you want to play it is a matter of personal choice -- just in general I've seen people who were extremely careful suffer the worst luck, while I've seen folks so reckless it's a wonder they're alive let alone their PC still works, and nothing bad ever seems to happen to them (?).

As far as the ATI driver goes, if making sure all the packages are updated does nothing, maybe do a partition image backup & try the 12.11 beta, considering VP's already broke for you with 12.10 -- if it was worse you could always restore the backup & be right where you started. You could likewise try removing 12.10 & going backwards to 12.8, 12.6 etc... There's not as many people using ATI for video, but for gaming I've read of some having to go back almost a year's worth of drivers to get things working on their system, but they've never looked [or at least reported] why they had to go back so far, what it was that broke things. As long as you can restore a full backup to put things back the biggest risk IMHO is you'll be wasting your time. The free Process Explorer from Sysinternals at microsoft.com lets you see what files VP opens or calls while it's running & while it's rendering your video, & maybe it'll show you something you recognize that you could try to turn off or disable? You can try the Win7 DS Filter Tweaker & the Codec Tweak Tool without much if any risk, though I don't have a lot of faith they'll fix anything either -- you can get both free at videohelp.com & either or both may turn out to be handy someday anyway.