HDV workflow with Cineform

totally lost wrote on 11/27/2007, 12:04 PM

I just went to the Cineform site and did not see anything specified that worked with Vegas. What am I missing, didn't there used to be?

Please correct me if I am wrong....It is my understanding that you can get a Cineform plug-in, you can use it when you are dumping it into your workstation. Cineform basically converts the m2t files into avi's in realtime....? yes no maybe so ; ) ?

1) Is the avi file bigger than what the file would be if a pure m2t file?

2) Do both a m2t file and cineform avi file get loaded on the workstation or just a cineform avi?

3) Can I the cineform codec with HDV split? If not is there a work around. I like the split scene feature with HDV split. I just want to load 1 hour tapes with starting and stopping.

4) I am assuming my renders will be much faster using cineform avis vs rendering m2t files? Yes?

Please advise, AND thank you!

Comments

jrazz wrote on 11/27/2007, 12:27 PM

If you use the smart render feature for M2T files and are just doing straight cuts and crossfades, you will get a super quick render time as it only encodes the parts that have changed. If you apply color correction or anything else that affects the whole of the video, you will not gain any time as it will have to re render.

I used to use the Cineform codecs built into Vegas but since V8a I have edited the m2t file on the timeline.

j razz

totally lost wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:03 PM

Thanks jrazz.

I got v8 , but haven't edited in months, I have been shooting a lot lately and need to get back to editing.

So I just dump the m2t file into V8 via HDV split? Is there anything I need to do to activate smart render?

What about if I render using cineform avi? Would I save rendering time if they were already cineform avi files?

jrazz wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:13 PM

Smart render only works with the mpg/m2t files and I believe they have to be captured using Vegas's capture tool (I could be wrong on that). So, the Avi files will not prove any quicker, but if you are doing CC and other fx work, you might want to use Cineform as opposed to the native m2t file.

j razz

totally lost wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:24 PM

ok. I usually do simple edits. So your suggestion seems like the way to go.

So the Vegas DHV capture tool is stable? Does it split up scenes like HDV split?

Thanks!!! I've been out of it for a while. Anything else I should know yo make things smoother?

Here's my old work flow with Ver 7

FX-1 firewire - > HDV split - > edit m2t files - > render to cineform avi - > cineform avi render to flash via Sorenson squeeze

any suggestions greatly appreciated!

jrazz wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:38 PM

Vegas will split scenes. I have an issue with the cuts not being accurate (1-3 frames of the following event will be attached to the left side of the cut).

Just give it a go and see how it works for you.

j razz

totally lost wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:47 PM

I love this place!

Thank you jrazz! you're the best!

Serena wrote on 11/27/2007, 1:48 PM

Vegas 8a handles m2t well and if you're doing simple post and not rendering for large display devices very likely you won't find any advantage in using Cineform (NEO HDV).
You'll have noticed that HDConnect has been superceded (there is a final upgrade available on the Cineform site) and replaced by NEO HDV. You can upgrade the Cineform codec in Vegas by downloading NEO Player (free) --- http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htmhere[/link]

Laurence wrote on 11/28/2007, 3:08 PM

Vegas 8 smart-renders mpeg2 HDV beautifully, and I no longer convert all my footage to Cineform, but I still am glad that I bought Neo HDV and it is still important to my workflow.

The reason is that I rarely use my tripod. I shoot with a Spiderbrace on my HDV camera and a Levelcam on my smaller AVCHD camera. I wouldn't be able to get away with this if I didn't use the excellent John Meyer Deshaker Script.

Anyway, the way my workflow goes is this:

1/ I shoot as steady as possible with my Spiderbrace or Levelcam.

2/ I capture the footage with HDVSplit and edit the native m2t clips in Vegas.

3/ When I have a decent edit, I run the Deshaker script on all the non-tripod footage using a variation of the script that returns Cineform rather than uncompressed clips.

4/ Examine all the deshaken clips looking for edge distortions. Zoom and crop where needed to get rid of edge distortion problems. I also apply any color correction at this stage.

5/ I render to a Cineform codec master. This goes really quickly because unmodified Cineform clips smart-render to the Cineform master. I crop and color correct some of the Cineform clips, but usually there are still plenty that smart-render quickly.

6/ From the Cineform master, I render whatever delivery format I need.

This is the workflow I am using all the time right now and the results look just wonderful. If I didn't have Cineform Neo, I would need a heck of a lot more disc space, the final renders would take a lot longer, and the quality wouldn't look any different. Smart-rendered mpeg 2 wouldn't help me at all since I use the deshaker script so heavily.

Not only that, but I really like Blu-ray compatible AVCHD disc on regular DVD+-R as a delivery format.. The 15 mbps AVCHD compression is not as challenged after a bit of deshaking and I am quite happy with the way it looks. On my PS3, I can play either the raw AVCHD clips, or a menu formatted AVCHD disc. Also, there is a little more headroom as compared to mpeg2 at 25 mbps as is required by HD DVD on DVD+-R. Anyway, AVCHD deliver means that you can't take advantage of mpeg2 smart-rendering.