Help me make a DVD that will make my dreams come true, using Vegas

Sticky Fingaz wrote on 12/3/2003, 9:37 PM
I just got assigned to the coolest job ever.

To make a long story short, I've been obsessed with a rap group by the name of "Onyx" for the past 12 years. Some of you may even remember their huge hit in 1993 called "Slam" that they did with a bunch of heavy metal dudes way before it was the normal. Anyway, I started a fan site for them a year ago and it became the official site when one of them saw it and called me. A dream, I tell ya.

Anyway I told them that I am pretty good with DVD stuff and video, and that they should give me a shot at making them a music video DVD of all their videos. I wouldn't charge them a nickel because I am such a fan and would have fun doing it, not to mention it would be an easy way to see all their music videos because they have way too many TV would never show. Within 2 days at my door were 19 Super VHS tapes. Each one containing a music video of theirs each, all on Super VHS from their original source. Even some cool stuff like them winning album of the year on Soul Train was there. WOW.

Video quality is stunning, but I want to imrpove. People say improving from the source is impossible, I say nonsense. I already found taking the saturation down using the Color Correction filter to make the picture look better, as well as lowering the Gamma a bit as it seems that my Sony DV to Firewire cam brightens the picture up a little too much to my liking. I am also using the border filter, very barely, to cover up VCR lines I get from my Super VHS. I'd love this to look as professional as possible. I am of course using my original CD's for the audio aspect and not the crappy tape's.

What I am asking everyone is if they can recommend some filters or anything else that might make this look better than it does. I have to say all though this isn't a professional operation, I can't imagine the music videos that companies use when making music video DVD's are on source much better than Super VHS (but what do I know). Any feedback would be insanely appreciated.

Thank you guys :)

Comments

GaryKleiner wrote on 12/4/2003, 12:09 AM
Yes, the originals are probably much better than SVHS (e.g. Beta SP).

One thing you can do is to rent a professional-level SVHS deck like the JVC 822. This can give you a much better picture than consumer-grade units. They are much more stable, have optimized SP playback heads, have Noise Reduction, etc.

Gary
busterkeaton wrote on 12/4/2003, 2:01 AM
Wow, I didn't know Onyx were still around. haven't heard that name in a while
Chienworks wrote on 12/4/2003, 5:21 AM
Don't get carried away with subjective judgements of improvement. The tapes you have been given are very good, actually "stunning" in your own words. Don't mess with it too much. If you want to correct for the flaws in S-VHS then go for it. However, the last thing you want someone to say is "Man, this doesn't look like the video i remember. What did they do to this?" The original engineers doubtlessly put a lot of work into making the look they wanted. Your goal should be to preserve that look.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 12/4/2003, 5:33 AM
James, I agree with Kelly 110%.

If all you're doing is making a compilation of the group's music videos, fact of the matter is you really have no business changing the "look" of the videos. As Kelly said, you don't want to tick anyone off -- especially those that gave you the opportunity in the first place, i.e., the performers. I can guarantee you that they "remember" very well what their videos looked like, should look like and will expect them to look like in the compilation.

Kelly hit the nail right on the head when he said, "Your goal should be to preserve that look."

J--
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 12/4/2003, 6:00 AM
No no, I am not changing the videos in any way. I meant things like removing VCR lines at the bottom, or taking out some of the ugly artifacts that comes from VHS tapes. That's all.
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 12/4/2003, 6:08 AM
I actually had the option of receiving the tapes on Beta SP. How much better are those? I don't have a beta player.
Former user wrote on 12/4/2003, 6:11 AM
Be aware that if you are planning on replacing the music from the Svhs tapes with music from the CD's, they may not sync. A videotape, without time code references, can drift in speed due to machine differences, tape stretch and other things.

Dave T2
farss wrote on 12/4/2003, 6:48 AM
1st thing. Reality check might be in order here. Are these guys looking to reelase this thing commercialy? If so then even though your doing it for nix lots of people will be paying to buy the end result so it's got to be good. If that's the case I'd be coming off SP, go component through say a Miranda DV bridge to DV anc capture that way. I've done that myself to make DVDs and it fantastic. SP decks aren't expensive to hire and a DV bridge shouldn't be either, heck there's no wera and tear. If th eSP tapes are a bit dodgy make certain you get a SP deck with a TBC.

Next issue is if they plan to press DVDs you should think about either DLT or glass masters, either are expensive although many places now will accept DVD-R masters. Check first.

If this isn't the drama of commercial release then don't be put off by SVHS, it's not that bad with good decks, assuming whoever made the copies used a decent VCR. Still aim to have a TBC unless you get a good deck with one in it. Avoid going composite anywhere in the chain, if you don't then SVHS won't be the weak link. If you can beg, borrow or hire an ADVC-300 would be ideal for digitising. Even a D8 camera will do a quite good job.

Remember one thing, it's mostly MUSIC video. I'd be aiming to get the audio 110%. If its crap the best images in the world won't save the day. If its really clean then no-ones going to be too focused on the video quality. Bear in mind some of this stuff is quite old now so it'll probably not look 100% even off the SP masters. Unless you're an expert in restoration I'd leave as much as is as you can.

Whatever happens, keep your cool and try to have fun doing it.
BillyBoy wrote on 12/4/2003, 7:23 AM
James in part said ... " Video quality is stunning, but I want to imrpove. People say improving from the source is impossible, I say nonsense. I already found taking the saturation down using the Color Correction filter to make the picture look better, as well as lowering the Gamma a bit ..."

I'm with you and don't ever let anybody try to talk you out of it either.The origial CAN be improved sometimes dramatically with a little TLC, patience and know how. The best part is Vegas makes it compartively easy.

GaryKleiner wrote on 12/4/2003, 7:24 AM
>Dave T2 says: An SVHS videotape, without time code references, can drift in speed due to machine differences, tape stretch and other things. <

Time code has nothing to do with tape sync. Analog video tape has a control track. It contains pulses that keep the playback the same as when it was recorded.This has to be pretty presise, or your picture will break up.

As for staying in sync with the music video when using a CD. This assumes that they did not mess with the playback rate when they made the video.

Gary


Former user wrote on 12/4/2003, 7:41 AM
Consumer VCR;s do not run at a consistent speed. They are able to play correctly because a TV will allow errors in the sync pulse rate and adjust their signal. Tapes will also stretch and drift. Televisions are very forgiving when it comes to incoming sync, and a VCR, when recording, will attempt to lock to the sync errors and all.

A Timecode signal allows two devices to sync together and maintain lock throughout the duration of the event. Without it you are at the mercy of mechanical devices created by separate manufacturers with different quality standards.


Broadcast equipment will tend to be more strict when adhering to specs, but even still, I would not guarantee a lock between two different sources. The big advantage in a professional situation is you use a House Sync generator, which sends a consistent sync pulse to each VTR in the house, thus each VTR is locking to the same external sync, regardless of the input/output sync. A home or consumer setup is locking to an ever drifting 60 hertz electrical pulse, that is being affected by refrigerators, A/C and other devices.

Believe me, I have been there and done that. Roll two vtrs at the same time, free running, and you will find that they will drift from each other over time.

If these videos were shot on film originally, the film would have been shot at 24 FPS, (or 30fps in some cases) but when transferred to tape, the film would have been slowed down to allow for pulldown, NTSC pulse, etc. Now think about it, if they were lip syncing to the CD during filiming, and then the film is slowed in transfer, the music would have to be slowed the same amount to stay in sync. Now, try to sync to the original CD. No go!!


Now you could get lucky, and this not be an issue. I just wanted to warn you of the possibility. As a guy I work with says, it may work, but there is no reason why it should.


Dave T2