Help me make this video better

epirb wrote on 12/30/2004, 2:45 PM
I put together this video from shots I took while up a my fathers house on the White River in Ark. at Christmas.
They normaly dont have snow for Christmas and fog is normal in the a.m. but the combination made the fog especially heavy that day.
I am pretty much a novice behind the camera, and this is actually the first nature type shots Ive ever taken. I was inspired by vid's by GMElliot,Grazie and others that have posted beautiful shots here as well on Chienworks site.
I wanted to put together a short (this one) and a long(including more shots and shots of his house) video for him as a gift.

So I'd like some input on how to make this better. Before you comment , realize I am aware of the camera shake in some of the shots. I was using my TRV-38 (little Sony) and it has not much mass. I wanted to try and do some rack focus shots and time lapse shots. Unfortunatly, I had to use the cheesy focus ring on the lens and it set on maximum zoom to get the shallow depth of field. Even with a tripod it still shook.! :( .
But those are the shots I got,and I didnt realize it until I got home to Fl. and saw them on the monitor.
The shaking issue would be easy to solve........With an FX-1!
Santa must of dropped mine off the sleigh.
Oh Well, Fire Away!!!

Thanks,
Eric
P.S. you may want to save it to a file to get the smoothest playback.

Comments

epirb wrote on 12/30/2004, 4:35 PM
Mike,
Thank you for the nice comments, I will go back and look at the scene lengths, I agree, I just am not sure how long one should pause on a scene for someone to take it in. I also didnt want to make them all the same for fear of the pace being boring. Do you think the Timelapse's lengths are OK?
I will also try and make my dissolves (long) more consistant.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 12/30/2004, 4:49 PM
Eric--

Very nice shots--great scenic piece! Soothing to watch. Created a nice sense of mood.

My only suggestion would be to tighten up the longer shots and lengthen the dissolves (they seemed too fast for the tempo of the music). Like one of my old mentors told me, "There are no rules of thumb." Then he proceeded to tell me, "In most situations, a shot should not be on screen any longer than seven seconds." The catch phrase there is "in most situations." You'd be surprised how much one can take in seven seconds.

There was one shot that didn't feel like it "fit" in the piece, that was the icicle hanging off the roof. It didn't seem to fit the motif of the piece overall.

This is just one person's opinion.

Jay

P.S. How would an FX-1 fix the shaking shots? Isn't that a tripod issue?
BillyBoy wrote on 12/30/2004, 4:51 PM
In my opinion the first thing you would want to do is remove the color cast.

I used frame 6,751 as the first "test". Any frames in this scene would be a good test since you have a fairly large area of sky and also some ice melting. The sky has a slight reddish tint to it in shadows and midtones.

Frame 4,987 has what appears to be a lot of virgin snow. Again it isn't as white as untouced snow should be. So time to drop on the Color Correcter filter. For my black point I clicked on some the dark shadows under the large clump of branches near middle of screen. The low wheel jumped to a angle of 15 and magnitude of .097.
Clicking next on several brighter patches of snow the high wheel ended up at a angle of 25 and a magnitude of .240. Combined this removed most of the redish cast. Still its winter, Its cold, so we want to move midtones just a bit cooler. I settled on a angle of 328 and a magnitude of .180.

Now set a keyframe a the very beginning (frame 1) copying the values made in frame 4,987. Now revist frame 6,751 and notice the sky is bluer and more natual and there is no longer any color tint anywhere in the vid which was pretty noticreable in some scenes. I bumbed both gain and gamma up to 1.030 and was happy with the results.
epirb wrote on 12/30/2004, 5:49 PM
Hey what great input ! I am in the process of shortening some scenes,lengthening the disolves, and adding other shots.
Jay, I kinda agree with you about the melting ice one the house,I just didnt have another shot of ice melting, and was trying to help convey the "warmth of the day", but it doesnt blend in with the all natural shots. I was thinking of either adding some shots of the house and my Dad into it. ?Good idea?Or should I just kill that shot and use another.

Billyboy,
Ive read your tutorials, and color corr is not my strong point(most things in editing aren't my strong point) But what a Great Lesson! That reaaly helped me see/understand it more!
I assume you were taking about adding that CC to the track level yes?
you probably noticed i added some color curves to the last three shots(to introduce more warm colors as the sun was setting. Was that ok?
Should that be readjusted after the track level adj?
My Cam was set on daylight white balance the whole time, just thought that would give me an easier start for color adj. instead of the constant changing auto setting.
Thanks for the great advice guys!!!!

Jay, yes a better tripod would have helped too, but the preset buttons on the FX would also make it nice......least thats the argument I'm using with the wife for future purchasing leverage...come on go with me on this one.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 12/30/2004, 5:59 PM
Eric, not knowing what all you have or haven't to choose from it would be hard to say what to add. However, I would suggest you keep your established motif--the scenic shots--if it ain't a scenic shot, don't use it (just my opinion).

You could do a slow dissolve between a shot with snow with the one shot later in the day with the sun out and the snow mostly melted and that would, I think, convey what you're trying to say/show.

You could also divide the shot of the fog rising from the river--the heavy fog toward the beginning, and the dissipated fog nearer the shot where the sun comes out, as it were.

Just some thoughts, don't know if they help or not.

Jay
BillyBoy wrote on 12/30/2004, 8:17 PM
Yes, I just dragged the Color Corrector to the track. If you applied some effects to the sunset you probably want to insert a break at that point to not undo what you done then just apply the suggestion I made to the first event (everything before the sunset) and yours to the second.

If you want to warm up the sunset there is a preset just for that, called sunset. You can find it under the FX filter called Gradiant Map.

When you first drop it at its default settings its way too yellow for my tastes. Try changing it to somewhere in the 5.000 or less range and I think you'll like the effect. You can get more creative and blend in some red and change the effect over time with keyframes. Use the blend, not add mode.

If you want to play it more, (just for the sunset portion) drop in color curves, set a keyframe about mid way and pull down BOTH handles on the curve, about 1/4 inch or so, then set a key frame near the end and pull down more.
Avanti wrote on 12/30/2004, 9:01 PM
Some very beautiful shots. I loved the closing scene. You can use DeShaker to get rid of the unwanted movement, but the next time you shoot, try to add some smooth camera movement like corkscrews and slow rolling dolly type of movements with the trees.
Grazie wrote on 12/30/2004, 9:34 PM
I wanna see TOO! ! ! I can't download it . .arrgghh!
Grazie wrote on 12/30/2004, 11:05 PM
Epirb! Excellent . .. superb framing and great content. Too long? Well maybe but I'm watching for the 3rd time .. I'm gonna have it running for at least another 30 mins. Really nice that you picked up on my work and have taken it forward. Great stuff. Loved the outrageous colours towards the end .. . time lapse - or speeded up eh? I think you have a masive amount of material to now start experimenting with BIG dissolves and almost give yourself permissions to start pulling the "shapes" you got within the framing to use them shapes to make a very magical piece.

Loved it! It's got a lot more available for you .. . oh one itsy bitsy thingy? PLease drop the comma after "Cotter" - yah don't need it . .and it loks naff!

Best regards,

Grazie
Steve Mann wrote on 12/31/2004, 12:49 AM
Zoom is a transition, so treat it as one. When you zoom out in the first zoom, start the dissolve before the end of the zoom, or hold on the end-zoom for a few seconds. Yup - the icicle doesn't belong - not needed. I also agree that your transitions should be longer. The music is interesting - what is it.
epirb wrote on 12/31/2004, 7:59 AM
WOW,
what a way to wake up . Such great comments, Grazie, thanks for the compliments much of my inspiration was your Grymsdyke piece, so it means alot to me that you liked it! I'm getting rid of the comma...period!
I am taking all your comments and putting together a second version which I'll post later today.

I definatly like the zoom /disolve idea, n19093, plus I'm shorting that shot.

Splitting the timelapse of the fog evap,Jay, is also an excelent idea. I hope I can execute these excelent ideas properly.
BTW ,CCB mentioned <corkscrews> what is that?

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/31/2004, 8:50 AM
epirb, I did want to say that you have a great eye for composition. I've been doing nature photography (stills) for years now and I had to work to get an eye for it at first, but now I have developed a real talent in that area, and you definately, DEFINATELY, have a talent in this area as well.


Dave - BTW, what was the music?
Really enjoyed it.
epirb wrote on 12/31/2004, 10:36 AM
Thanks Dave,
I'm working on my composition, it's funny, my mother is a great artist, can draw paint anything, I can barly draw a stickman....I'm more of a technical guy. But I'm trying.
Actually the music has alot to do with my shots, the Artists' name is Giles Reaves he's one of my top favorites. His music is mostly electronic /ambient.
The song is Twilight, from his Sea Of Glass album.The song was running through my mind as I shot the scenes.
I have actually emailed him to ask permission to use the song, strictly for personal use(this video to give to my dad). I'm hoping I will get his Ok, cuz it fits the feel I was going for.
[Hey Spot, if your reading this, maybe you know him and can put in a good word for me ; ) he too is a Starstreams favorite of mine]
One of Giles fist CD's is my most Favorite, called Wunjo, Based on the Viking Runes
It was on MCA and I believe its out of print now(I bought two cut outs just to save as back up) Its music inspires all sorts of creative images in my head.
Another album he did which is also excelent is Nothing is Lost which was rereleased as Something is Found.
His music is a big part of my image and music inspiration. If we all had a soundtrack for our lives,I would want him to write mine.
randy-stewart wrote on 12/31/2004, 11:26 AM
Epirb,
I'm a little late on commenting but just wanted to compliment you on this piece. I really like it. One item that jumped out at me was in the first shot, the zoom starts abruptly. Recommend you split the clip and crossfade it just where the zoom starts to make it a softer transition. Also, like stated above, you could keep the scenes moving a little with shorter clips or by using some pan-crop on the longer static clips to add motion. Not too much just a little side to side or top to bottom. Excellent piece. I'm sure your dad will love it.
Aloha,
Randy
epirb wrote on 12/31/2004, 11:59 AM
I see that too, have made the change and will have 2nd version up in about an hour.
Thanks to all for your help hope you like this next version.
randy-stewart wrote on 12/31/2004, 12:50 PM
Epirb,
New version rocks! One more suggestion, on the icicle, start zoomed in (pan-crop) on the ice and then pull back. It will look more part of nature that way. Just a suggestion. Much improved. Again, your Dad is gonna love this.
Randy
epirb wrote on 12/31/2004, 1:04 PM
umm gee thanks Randy but I havent posted the new one yet,...Its still rendering.....;( but I'll post soon as it is. My wife liked the first one esp. after she saw it a second time.
I figured after the avi is done rendering I'll render to a wmv with a time code burn, so you all can point out my screw ups with some sort of reference.
I also have not done CC to the whole piece yet, figure I'd wait till the content is right, then use or try and apply what BB has taught me as a last step before finall render.
epirb wrote on 12/31/2004, 3:10 PM
New Version THE WARMTH OF DAY
THANK YOU ALL for your help...I hope you like this one even more.
Besides I have to let my tiny 1.8ghz processor cool down....
Grazie wrote on 12/31/2004, 11:07 PM
Woke up this morning after a nasty night with this chesty cough and sore throat . . came to my Compaq, fired it up, got to your new version of Cotter and . .. well . . I'm just amazed. Stunning.

You have a very rare talent for framing and a sense of colour-way that takes people decades to learn. Your timing with the music is spot on. What I call the "weight" of the visual to audio ratio is beautiful.

I have it playing at the moment - with your audio "cacooning" me in my studio. I just adore the new events with just the tiniest hints at human movement - very delicate and very Japanese. I suspect that if you show this to a person from Japan it will move them greater than you think.

Simply put? Gorgeously evocative of Winter . . thank you for sharing and doing the extra edit . . it has NOT been lost on this Londoner . . thank you . ..

Graham
garo wrote on 1/1/2005, 2:18 AM
Audio Comment: I liked the film but I get a very, what I am assuming is, very compressed audio. I have the same problem when making lower resolutioned productions. Is it possible to render the audio in a much higher resolution than the video?

A Great New Year to you all!
//Garo
P.S OT
- it's tough over here in Sweden we've lost a considrable number of people in the tsunami. With much prasie to the local populations for heroic efforts and unselfish actions - many organisations are in need of contributions at this time too.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/1/2005, 5:06 AM
Eric, that was nicely done--considerable improvement! There was only one place where, this time, it felt "rushed." It's a series of three, I think, rather quick dissolves. It starts at about 3:27;00--a vine that looks like a rope. The shots dissolve from one to another so quickly, it "feels" like it's moving faster than the music. I think the shots could be held a bit longer to match the overall rhythm that you have established.

I really enjoyed watching it. Very soothing!

Again, just one person's opinion.

Jay
Lili wrote on 1/1/2005, 1:17 PM
Watched both versions - agree that shortened clips have made for better viewing . There are a couple I'd eliminate completely, however,most of your images remind me of beautiful, moody paintings and that's what captured my interest. Have done extensive (still) nature photography in past years and must add that I think you're a "natural" i - an amazing first effort!

Music suits perfectly. thanks for sharing.