Thanks for the advice...we could do that ourselves by just getting a
pair cd mixers from a friend.

Any other suggestions?

-Tad

Victor Harriman wrote:
>>Tad:
>>The easiest, cheapest way to do what you want is to make a
>>copy of the CD you have and then hire a local DJ. The guy can even
>>include some FX, sampling, etc. All you have to do is record his
mix.
>>
>>Good luck.
>>
>>
>>Victor.
>>
>>
>>
>>tad wrote:
>>>> >>>>This isn't really a Vegas related question but I thought >>>>that someone here would be able to offer suggestions with a >>>>Sonic Foundry suite sollution (Acid Pro, Vegas Pro 1.0 and >>>>SoundForge XP). >>>> >>>>Here's what I want to do: >>>>I want to assemble a mix cd of original music, all >>>>completed tracks, and beat match/mix them together into one >>>>long track that I can then index in CD Architect. If we >>>>had pressed all of our tracks to vinyl we would just mix >>>>them ourselves but these tracks only exist in the digital >>>>realm (as wavs and cd audio). I would also like to >>>>have "pure control" and pull this off digitaly just for the >>>>fun of it. >>>> >>>>Here are the hairbrained ways I have tried and failed: >>>>Obviously Acid was not designed to strech entire tracks >>>>that do no have start and end points on the beat. In case >>>>you haven't tried it, it doesn't work. I've also tried >>>>calculating the beat, but this is a bit innacurate without >>>>something that doesn't analyze the actual wav? Is there >>>>another application that would allow one to visually strech >>>>tracks in comparison to other tracks? >>>> >>>>As you can tell, I am a hack studio guy, so I won't be >>>>insulted if a bunch of people "in the know" want to call me >>>>unprofessional and ammatur. I am. I'm relatively sure >>>>that I could pull it off if someone can explain to me what >>>>I should do. >>>> >>>>Any help would be much appreciated. >>>> >>>>-Tad >>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>face="arial" >>>>size="-1" color="red">www.peepstudios.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

I'd really like you beside me on this, but I'll try to explain.

As a hobby slash semi-pro DJ and remixer I've done some remixes,
quite a few compilations and a number of multi-part mixes, so I've
gotten quite a technique which works kinda OK. There are a few simple
rules:

1: Don't overestimate it. If the BPM differences are too great, no
software or hardware in the world can make it sound good. A
difference of 10-15 BPM is the absolute roof.

2: Pitch (not pitch-shift) the song rather than time-stretch it.
There are not many timestretchers around that can do acceptable
stretching without clearly audible artefacts, and you always end up
getting screwy sound with stutter, echo / flanging artefacts and lost
transients.

3: Long mixes is the key. Don't crossfade to the new song in 4 or 8
secs, let it go for a full 20-25 secs to allow people to adjust to
the new song. This is, of course, based upon the fact that you can
get the songs to fit togehter musically for 25 seconds. In popular
music this just isn't possible, but it would be nice =)

OK, that's the rules. The technique isn't that hard, you just load
the two wavs and look at them. You'll see there's a regular pattern
to the song, a symmetrical wave look, most often you'll clearly see
the drums peak louder than the rest of the instruments. That's the
only info you really need.

Simply match the two beat- and timewise, and you're rather close.
Play through it and fine-tune the mix a couple of times, and you're
all ready to go.

Simple as that.

>>The technique isn't that hard, you just load
>>the two wavs and look at them. You'll see there's a regular pattern
>>to the song, a symmetrical wave look, most often you'll clearly see
>>the drums peak louder than the rest of the instruments.

Thanks for the response.

The technique is actually what I'm after. I've djd for 7 years or so
and know what I'd like to do mix-wize. I want to match the tracks
EXACTLY. Do you just pitch shift the tracks until you get an
approximate match? What settings/info/software do you use/need to
perform the pitching of the tracks?

Thanks again.

-Tad

Johan Althoff wrote:
>>I'd really like you beside me on this, but I'll try to explain.
>>
>>As a hobby slash semi-pro DJ and remixer I've done some remixes,
>>quite a few compilations and a number of multi-part mixes, so I've
>>gotten quite a technique which works kinda OK. There are a few
simple
>>rules:
>>
>>1: Don't overestimate it. If the BPM differences are too great, no
>>software or hardware in the world can make it sound good. A
>>difference of 10-15 BPM is the absolute roof.
>>
>>2: Pitch (not pitch-shift) the song rather than time-stretch it.
>>There are not many timestretchers around that can do acceptable
>>stretching without clearly audible artefacts, and you always end up
>>getting screwy sound with stutter, echo / flanging artefacts and
lost
>>transients.
>>
>>3: Long mixes is the key. Don't crossfade to the new song in 4 or 8
>>secs, let it go for a full 20-25 secs to allow people to adjust to
>>the new song. This is, of course, based upon the fact that you can
>>get the songs to fit togehter musically for 25 seconds. In popular
>>music this just isn't possible, but it would be nice =)
>>
>>OK, that's the rules. The technique isn't that hard, you just load
>>the two wavs and look at them. You'll see there's a regular pattern
>>to the song, a symmetrical wave look, most often you'll clearly see
>>the drums peak louder than the rest of the instruments. That's the
>>only info you really need.
>>
>>Simply match the two beat- and timewise, and you're rather close.
>>Play through it and fine-tune the mix a couple of times, and you're
>>all ready to go.
>>
>>Simple as that.

Tad:

">>The technique is actually what I'm after. I've djd for 7 years or
so
>>and know what I'd like to do mix-wize. I want to match the tracks
>>EXACTLY. Do you just pitch shift the tracks until you get an
>>approximate match? What settings/info/software do you use/need to
>>perform the pitching of the tracks?"

There's no particular technique. To time stretch with or without pitch
change, you can use Prosoniq's "Time Factory", the best tool for this
task under Windows. There's also something called "BPM Studio" that is
supposed to do everything you want. You can check it out at:
http://www.alcatech.com/

Be warned, though: most of these DJ'ing programs rarely work as
advertised.

Victor.

As I said, it's kinda tough to explain this without showing it on-
screen, but this is how I do it. We're talking Vegas here, but any
multitracker would do.

Isolate (meaning trim out everyting else) 32 bars of music out of
each piece.

Line them up and stretch the target song until it lines up with the
original. Again, I'm not really fond of all those funky time-
stretchers available, I simply pitch the song (not pitch-shift which
is a destructive operation, I merely change the playback speed of the
wav file).

Find out exactly how much you pitched that .wav snippet, and apply
the same pitch to the entire piece.

Now, I'm kinda sure you had something like this figured out already,
so I must be missing the point. Do you want to do this operation
automatically? Do you need sample-accurate time-correction? Do you
need it real-time? What's the catch? =)

tad wrote:
>>
>>>>The technique isn't that hard, you just load
>>>>the two wavs and look at them. You'll see there's a regular
pattern
>>>>to the song, a symmetrical wave look, most often you'll clearly
see
>>>>the drums peak louder than the rest of the instruments.
>>
>>Thanks for the response.
>>
>>The technique is actually what I'm after. I've djd for 7 years or
so
>>and know what I'd like to do mix-wize. I want to match the tracks
>>EXACTLY. Do you just pitch shift the tracks until you get an
>>approximate match? What settings/info/software do you use/need to
>>perform the pitching of the tracks?