help understanding timecodes - taken from tapes

kraz wrote on 9/1/2007, 10:16 PM
Someone recently asked me to edit some takes for him - and gave me all the cuts based listed in the timecodes he saw on the tapes. (while watching in his recorder.

On some of his tapes the counter reset to zero a few time in the tape (I think this happens when you shut off a certain way- or do a rewind after taping etc.)

I imported the media into Vegas using the vegas import tool , and I then (as I read on this list) - added the timecode effect while it was in the media pool - so it kept the original data even when I dragged it into the timeline. And edited it to shreads

what I see thought is that the timeline took the tape - and even if it captured the time code correctly from where I started the tape - it just kept going forward - and EVEN if my DV tape went back to zero it just continued.

Did I do something worng - did I assume the wrong behavioir of how this works? I want a way so that my tape captures have the same timecode as the miniDV tapes themselves (and if it matters these tapes were PAL if that makes a diff)

Thanks
Allen

Comments

farss wrote on 9/1/2007, 10:44 PM
If you've got broken TC on a tape you've kind of got a rpoblem!
Worse if you've got TC on a tape that resets, how can anything know where you really want the in and out points to be?
Unlike many old school system this will not faze Vegas one little bit however the methodology that you're trying to use will fail, it's a bit like saying "I'll be at lunch from 12:30 to 13:30 but after that meet me for breakfast at 09:00 and later we'll go to the cinema at 13:00".

In the bad old days when what you're trying to was the only way to work the solution I believe was to restripe the tape(s) with new contiguous timecode before trying to do a paper EDL.

Bob.
ushere wrote on 9/1/2007, 11:31 PM
as bob points out - you're stuffed. most of my work is on lining from edl's (old habits die hard for many of my clients).

depending on budget, storage, etc., the most practical answer is to simple capture the tapes, drop a tc fx on them (which will show continuous tc), and render out a dvd to give the client. he's back to square one, but at least things should work with an edl thereafter...

leslie
farss wrote on 9/1/2007, 11:47 PM
Just to be clear about what Leslie is saying here, he means it'll show the Project TC, not the tape TC, well I think that's what he means.
When I've done this I've added a super with the tape number as well, just in case all is not 100% clear. And if the client is going to give you a paper EDL, give them the paper i.e. a thing that forces them to write out the FULL TC. You think I'm being pedantic, well no!
Last time I got an "EDL" it had things like "1:32, 00:5:23, 01:00:23:12" in it. The only blessing was when I forced the client to sit down with me even he couldn't understand what he meant.

Bob.
Chienworks wrote on 9/2/2007, 4:18 AM
I had a client once hand me back a paper EDL with things like

04:20;13 -- 04:38;05
05:03;10 -- 06:41;27
09:16;21 -- 10:08;24

So i dutifully cut all those scenes together and printed a finished VHS. The client's response? "Wondeful! Those are exactly the scenes i want cut out. Now when can i have the scenes i want to keep?"
kraz wrote on 9/2/2007, 4:46 AM
OK I guess I am happy I did not do something wrong but ...

it is confusing .. If I start my capture in the middle the TC is good and starts wherever the tape does -

wouldn't it be good to jsut copy the TC exactly as it is on tape - and I am stuck trying ot figure out "WHICH" 2:04 I want ?
farss wrote on 9/2/2007, 6:04 AM
Should work, and you can apply some intelligence working out which 2:04 you want. Just need to finish cooking a DVD and I'll check this for you, current projects all have serious totally up the pole TC.

BTW, Vegas ALWAYS copies the TC from the tape, if it's there.

Bob.
farss wrote on 9/2/2007, 6:23 AM
Looks good to go here, when you open the clip in the trimmer what you get there is the tape TC. Just don't try to batch capture and you'll be fine.

Bob.
GlennChan wrote on 9/2/2007, 11:47 AM
In the bad old days when what you're trying to was the only way to work the solution I believe was to restripe the tape(s) with new contiguous timecode before trying to do a paper EDL.
That is not the only solution, but is recommended especially if you have more than one timecode break.

If there is a timecode break on the tape, you can:
In the Reel, add a "B" and "A" onto the end of the reel to indicate whether the timecode is before or after the TC break.
(As a matter of convenience) Put a paper note along with the tape explaining that there is a timecode break. This is because a lot of editors will name reels 007B when there is no timecode break. So the person doing the online conform usually assumes that there is no timecode break. But with the paper note, they definitely know that there is a TC break.

**Clarification:

People are talking about two different workflows here.

Workflow A- Give copies to the client with timecode burns. They make notes about what timecodes they want in the edit.

Workflow B- A (professional) offline editor edits the program. He/she sends an EDL to the online editing facility for finishing, along with a video reference of the offline edit. This is a workflow used a lot for high-end broadcast work, and is what I'm talking about. So basically I went on a digression.